A Cardiologist’s Holistic Approach to AFib

Dr. Wolfson 00:00
The you know, the the same things that lead to all disease of the same things that lead to atrial fibrillation right you know poor, poor nutrition poor lifestyle for emotional states. And you know kind of talking about the lifestyle where we talk about poor sleep leads to a fib a lack of sunshine leads to a fear of environmental toxins leads to afib. So as we start to clean all these things up, now, we can often resolve atrial fibrillation, or if you do need pharmaceuticals, or you do need an ablation procedure, then you will be the healthiest version of you going into those procedures. And that makes a big, big difference, not only in what I would say, you know, personally and common sense, but again, that’s also in the medical literature that if you kind of tune someone up prior to one of these procedures, you can actually get better, better results.

Brian Strickland 01:00
You’re listening to the Nutrition World Podcast, a show about navigating the intricacies of holistic wellness. We’re a natural health food store located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we believe that optimal health and peak performance should be accessible to everyone. And on today’s episode, we’re speaking to Dr. Jack Wolfson. He’s a board certified holistic cardiologist, author and speaker. And Ed’s been a big fan of his book The Paleo cardiologist for a long time. And one of the important subjects in that book is atrial fibrillation. It’s estimated that 12 point 1 million people will have a fib by 2030. So it’s important to know the underlying issues that cause it and what can be done to help prevent it. Dr. Wolfson gives us some expert insight into exactly what a fib is how lifestyle and environmental factors impact a fib and of course, some practical steps and products to help you along the way. So with that being said, let’s go ahead and jump into this conversation between Ed and Dr. Jack Wolfson.

Ed Jones 01:59
Well, good morning, Dr. Jack Wolfson. And welcome to Nutrition World’s podcast.

Dr. Wolfson 02:04
Thanks so much, Ed. It’s fantastic to be on. And I got a lot to talk about health wise, get a lot of people to help out and keep them safe in a crazy, crazy world.

Ed Jones 02:15
I love it. And I love you. I know we’ve connected before. You did one podcast on my other platform, The Holistic Navigator during the midst of the crazy and just wonderful. But I must say that I completely respect you in so many levels, one of which is, you know, I think there’s a lot of cowards out there in the field of health and medicine and even nutrition. And there’s also a small group of superheroes and you are in the group of that superhero to me. In fact, I do a radio show called Vital Health Radio every week. And it’s actually sponsored by hospital and I have a physician as my co host, and we have what we call a coward of the week and a hero of the week. Because I’m outspoken. I’m just going to tell the truth. And you are have been one of my heroes of the week, Dr. Wolfson for how you stand. How you had to think outside the box. You’re not brainwashed you don’t just click the boxes and go home with a big paycheck. You do things to help people I’ve loved following you with your family as they grow up your kids. You got a beautiful home set up there. And you’re in Colorado right now, I know in your offices in Arizona. But we’re going to talk about a fib today because I have been listening to people and watching people for four plus decades come in to Nutrition World. And they’re so frustrated with this a fib thing that and you know, I know we have sometimes advice and things but you’re the king expert. And I want to say you know for people who don’t know you one issue of the most amazing book called The Paleo cardiologist that I’ve sold to many people and also referenced because the standard care of cardiologist and they’re great people. It’s just I think the system’s broke so they don’t really access what you’ve gone on your way to do. But you are a board certified cardiologist fellow of the American College of Cardiology, and has emerged as one of the leading holistic natural cardiologist, and prior to opening your Wilson and integrative cardiology, your chairman of the Department of Medicine and Director of cardiac rehabilitation in Paradise Valley Hospital, Arizona, and a partner in one of the largest cardiologists practices. And you’ve been well spoken, well printed your books bill, a number one bestseller list. And I just actually was really excited all weekend long for this 30-35 minute episode. And I’ve done hundreds of these and I think today’s one of my more exciting times. So let’s get into the nitty gritty of this. Tell people what a fib actually is because it is not. It’s pretty common. It’s about they’re predicting 12 million people in 2030 will have this AFib so give us a little primer on this, if you will, Dr. Wilson,

Dr. Wolfson 04:58
Most certainly. Thanks so much and yeah, it’s Always great to talk to people that, that are really aware of what’s going on what it really means to be healthy and well operating in the health paradigm as opposed to the sickness paradigm. So again, thank you for having me on the show, to be able to express my opinions and thoughts. And yeah, like you said, you know, I spent 16 years as a conventionally trained you know, cardiologist in the biggest group in the state of Arizona, and we saw a lot a lot a lot of people with atrial fibrillation. Atrial fibrillation is an irregular heart rhythm, it can lead to symptoms such as palpitations, shortness of breath, chest pain, lightheadedness can cause people to pass out. And ultimately, it’s also a risk factor for having a stroke. And of course, whenever you mentioned stroke, you really tend to get people’s attention very quickly, because certainly nobody wants to have a stroke, we’ve all had stroke people in our lives or even just kind of seeing them around in society. And that’s obviously what we do not want as we look to have our best lives and live that 100 year hearts, you know, life that that I always talk about. But as it pertains to afib. Yeah, it’s definitely getting more and more common, certainly, as the population potentially ages, although, as you know, it appears that the life expectancy United States has peaked over the last few years at around, let’s say, roughly 80 years of age, you know, but again, as there’s more sickness in the world, leading to more, or let me say this, as there’s more unhealthy food, unhealthy lifestyle, and stress as a major factor, all these things lead to health issues, and ultimately to atrial fibrillation. So we can kind of unpack all those, you know, food lifestyle, and even the American College of Cardiology, is getting a lot more into mental health and emotional health as it relates to atrial fibrillation.

Ed Jones 06:59
That’s wonderful, I’m glad to hear that, you know, there are doors cracking open that I never thought would. And part of that, I think, is, again, some of the blessings of the past two years we went through. And I do know that, you know, a fib is devastating when it’s bad for a patient and client because it just saps the energy to a point that just almost they can’t function, the quality of life goes down. And on the other side, sometimes the treatments like all treatments can be life saving, or they can be life taking. And because the super heavy duty blood thinners, I know many people sometimes just throw their hands up and say, my life’s not worth living with all these medicines and so that they don’t know what to do. And if they are looking for integrative more holistic ideas, it’s not easy to find, as you know, Dr. Wolfson, you are a kind of a lone voice in the darkness. And I so respect you for that. So so the spinning of the blood because of a fib can create higher levels of potential clots and things. And so if a person wants to learn more about this, and they have family members of themselves, I know your website, I love your website, and I go to it all the time. In fact, I give out one, I printed one of your four page pieces on your blog about how you eat because I give it to every client that I counsel and I say this is how Dr. Wolfson eats. But it’s also how Ed Jones eats because we both agree on the same dietary habits. So what does the patient do now if they want want to learn more about okay, they’ve been diagnosed with and they want to expand a toolbox, you’re not trying to tell their cardiologist they’re wrong. They just want to be more informed what what would they want to start learning?

Dr. Wolfson 08:42
Well, you know, and atrial fibrillation is the number one reason why people come to see me personally in Arizona, why they contact our office to have a virtual consultation with me, come see me. And and you know, to that end, again, it’s it’s a major pain point because again, people they don’t like the symptoms, as you alluded to, they don’t like the pharmaceuticals, maybe they want a different approach than surgical ablations or catheter based ablation procedures, they they really want the best in health and wellness and that’s why again, they contact us or they read our information. We’re about to release our new website for natural heart doctor so that’ll have a lot more information about atrial fibrillation on there, you know, but again, I you know, atrial fibrillation is something we’ve got time to figure out as well. You don’t have to rush into any intervention, you don’t have to rush into an ablation. You don’t have to rush onto the pharmaceuticals and and for that again, yeah, there’s time to have this conversation. But ultimately, you know, the the same things that lead to all disease of the same things that lead to atrial fibrillation, right you know, poor, poor nutrition, poor lifestyle for emotional states. And you know, kind of talking about the lifestyle where we talk about poor sleep leads to a fib, a lack of sunshine leads to a fib, environmental toxins leads to afib. So as we start to clean all these things up, now, we can often resolve atrial fibrillation, or if you do need pharmaceuticals, or you do need an ablation procedure, then you will be the healthiest version of you going into those procedures. And that makes a big, big difference, not only in what I would say, you know, personally and common sense, but again, that’s also in the medical literature, that if you kind of tune someone up prior to one of these procedures, you can actually get better, better results.

Ed Jones 10:46
And, you know, that’s, that’s not part of the conversation. I don’t know about your neck of the woods, where you live with traditional medicines, but here, that would never be brought up. But one is, it’s not always the fault of the healthcare practitioner, their hands are tied with insurance. And secondly, is there’s no money to do lifestyle management and embracing what the common sense you just spoke about. And the thing is, you know, textbook medicine, I think they decided early on not to put any common sense or wisdom in it, it’s just a black and white, you know, textbook full of a lot of stuff. But there still has to be. I think medicine and healings and art as much as as science, you are an artist, there’s no doubt because you’ve got this. I mean, so many medical people have this, you got to code the disease, it’s a separate entity is not not really a part of the package is kind of like it’s an F 150 truck and part of its broken. So we’re just going to go in and fix that part. And there’s times that works. But you and I both know that raising the level of health will help everything that that what’s that saying? rising tide raises all ships while raising your health will will usually decrease all symptoms make you feel better, and make outcomes better, because you’re raising the total health. And you talk about EMS, and we talk about chemicals. And you talk about all these nutrient deficiencies. And I know your wife, chiropractor physician, she’s amazing with some of her information to that I know that helped you a lot along the path. So again, ablation, tell somebody real quickly what ablation is just in case they don’t know.

Dr. Wolfson 12:23
So an ablation is where that typically no these days because it can be done surgically, or it can be done with a tube, or what’s known as a catheter that goes in through the groin and then through the neck and then goes into the heart and actually burns the top part of the heart called the atria and the left atrium and the right atrium, they get burned, and therefore kind of, you know, again, like breaking up the atrial fibrillation, electrical circuit. And that can be effective, but it’s only effective 50% of the time, again, that’s in the medical literature in the best hands, it works half the time. And ultimately a lot of people that I see of course, they have to go through a second ablation, a third ablation. And again, I’m not opposed to those things, but can we try and do it without the ablation because obviously there are short term risks of an ablation including puncturing the heart puncturing the lung, caught and people have died during ablation procedures. In fact, one out of 200 people die within 30 days of an ablation procedure really. And ultimately, of course, it’s it’s a large amount of radiation. So the radiation exposure that people get causes long term damage as well. And even the damage as you can imagine, to burning heart tissue can lead to some long term sequelae or problems as well. So ultimately, if we can avoid ablation great, or if you do need an ablation, again, we need to make you the healthiest version of you. And we do that again, by eating the right food, the right lifestyle, the right thought processes. And then also what I’m of course big on is the concept of test, don’t guess. So when we test for all of these vitamins and minerals, when we test for markers of inflammation when we test levels of glutathione and I know you’re a big proponent of glutathione and you’ve been such a champion of something like NAC and acetyl cysteine that the purpose of that is to boost glutathione levels. We look for these, you know mold, mycotoxins and environmental toxins. And as we do this superduper advanced testing, then we come up with the ultimate plan this arrow right? This is the nutrition This is the lifestyle. This is the mental health and wellness and then these are the nutrients that we’d like to support you with that again all evidence based but also we get the information from the testing to guide what you know, obviously what you guys do over nutrition world, you know, for sure, because any person can say well, you know, I heard magnesium was good. I heard potassium was good. I heard it Omega three fish oil was good. There’s a lot of different things that people can use. But we can also come up with the concept of how do we know what to use, we test don’t guess. And then once you get the testing, then you can dial in the products that would truly be helpful.

Ed Jones 15:14
I just absolutely love your common sense, which is quite rare today, as we know, I’m so connected to what you’re saying, I do feel like, you know, I think people like you and I have done this for so long. We’re pretty darn good at guessing. But it still is getting the real numbers. And I’ll give you a really quick little story here. I have 27 staff members, and I did an Omega three tests on all of them about six months ago, keep in mind these people come to me and work for me not because they want paychecks, because I believe in what we’re doing. All of these people supplement and most of them eat far better than 98% of the population and 50% of them had an Omega three index of four or less, we need an Omega index of eight and above to have good cardiac health and mental health. And these are people way above the average. So I was actually shocked. So you’re exactly right testing and testing. And again, I want to encourage people if you’re in the throes of some crisis with your help, Dr. Wolfson’s available for consultations, and you can do this from a distance right with Zoom and the way practice the way you practice medicine.

Dr. Wolfson 16:18
Yeah, I’ve been doing virtual since 2012. You know, most of my patients do come from out of state. So the follow up is on Zoom or back, you know, we used to use Skype or in certainly still use phones. So those are all options. But you know, back to your Omega three that you said, you know, people with the highest levels of Omega three have the lowest risk of everything. Omega threes, they they make up the cell membrane, a large portion of the cell membrane, which is the brain of the cell that allows things inside the cell that belong and keeps things outside of the cell that don’t belong in this this super communication fence that surrounds every cell, and it’s loaded with omega threes. It’s also loaded with cholesterol, which is why we always profess and teach that cholesterol is so important, which is why all animal species make it but the Omega three you know, the best thing to do is certainly get that from seafood load up on seafood, wild salmon, sardines, anchovies, shellfish, salmon roe is another fantastic source. But again, we can always supplement with omega threes. To that note, there has been some, you know, studies and I think this is a good time to mention this that talked about omega threes actually really increasing risk of atrial fibrillation, Omega three supplements. So I want people I know in your world, they’re very plugged in with the information I want to clarify that. When you give a population of people who eat McDonald’s, cookies and cupcakes, and you give them an Omega three, that’s likely a lousy and cheap form of the Omega three, you’re going to get bad results. When you are a healthy person, and you take quality supplements with foundational items such as a good quality multivitamin, and then you add an Omega three on to that I think you’re going to get fantastic results. And there is plenty of evidence that shows that again, the jersey provincial trial that showed it was done in Italy years ago that showed that omega three supplementation after a heart attack led to a much greater survival than the people who didn’t get the Omega three so again, test don’t guess. Eat more seafood, supplement with quality products but on top of a good nutrition you know nutritional supplement foundation that’s the key.

Ed Jones 18:36
That is wonderful and again you spoke referred to quality matters big time not just quality of supplements, quality of your the sources of your food. And you know, food is not just gas for the car we need to search and be not live in a cave but do the best we can with decisions and I want to repeat one thing to make sure people didn’t think they misunderstood you cholesterols not a bad guy that preach it all the time of course that it’s a good guy but it makes hormones and so many things. So your take on cholesterol?

Dr. Wolfson 19:09
well you know again cluster I like yeah, like we just said everybody who’s listening hopefully knows that cholesterol is beneficial. The most important marker when it comes to heart risk and cholesterol or lipids as it should be known more more appropriately is a ratio the Apo B Apo a one ratio that is a simple blood test that should be again part of everyone’s testing package and that’s the most important thing. Total cholesterol doesn’t matter, LDL HDL they don’t matter. What matters is that APO B APO A1 ratio, all of that pales in comparison to atrial fibrillation, I’m sorry, excuse me to inflammation especially as it pertains to atrial fibrillation so we want to check those markers of inflammation. hscrp, Myeloperoxidase, phospholipases A2. There’s so many different markers of inflammation, if you’re inflamed, you’re in trouble, you better head figure it out. But you know, Ed I do want to, I do want to take away any possibility of giving people a little bit of that concept of do the best you can. Because you and I both, again, I’m not into this, do the best you can, it’s just do the best. And so many people, you know, they’ll they’ll eat 70%, organic, 80% organic, we need to really take it to the next level. Number one, we don’t want to support you know, support the people that are destroying this planet with GMO foods, pesticide riddled, you know, foods, destroying the planet, for, you know, for us, for our children, for the animals, you name it. And ultimately, as we actually look at people’s levels of chemicals, people who are in the highest third, for example, have a certain pesticide called the pirathroid class, they are at 300% higher risk of having a cardiovascular death in a certain time period, than the people at the lowest level of pesticides, lots of information on pesticides, obviously a lot more coming out about the dangers of glyphosate, how that leads to all different problems. Again, whatever the is killing the bugs is killing us, we got to just step out of the mindset of well, you know, once in a while I’ll eat this or once in a while I have that. It’s just, it’s just not good enough for you know, for myself, for my family for the planet. And I don’t like to give people any kind of leeway on that. It’s a matter of just, you know, again, just do do the best always do the best.

Ed Jones 21:48
I love that. I love that. Because, you know, sometimes we are our own worst enemies. Certainly I have been and we can find little excuses to kind of fudge and then that gets bigger and greater. And then results just are diminishing by the moment when you do that. I mean, if you’re going to give an effort to something in life, you know what I mean, it doesn’t mean you kill yourself but be serious with it and be at the 99 to 100% level and and don’t don’t beat up on yourself if you occasionally stumble, but But yes, put the big plan in action, put the bar pretty dang high for yourself back real quickly, just so we make sure it’s so we’ve covered Omega three extremely important. I want to talk about magnesium one second, because I certainly advise and recommend that to a lot of people for again, heart rhythms and and all the things that come with magnesium deficiencies. Is that something you also test for and you recommend?

Dr. Wolfson 22:44
Oh, certainly, you know, in this, what’s great about this intracellular testing is that it tells us what’s going on inside of the cells. And that’s where the action happens. So intracellular magnesium intracellular potassium intersected the levels of glutathione is now no matter what’s floating around in the blood, again, it’s got to get into the blood cells, it’s got to get into the heart cells, ultimately is where magnesium is. So magnesium is certainly one of those things that we test for, and again, surprisingly enough at is that people serum levels. You know, in the blood, they are often in the normal range, but intracellular, they’re low, or they’re on the lower side. And I can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen over the years and believe it or not, they’ve come out of the hospital after a diagnosis of atrial fibrillation, and no one even tested their magnesium levels in the blood. They weren’t they weren’t they weren’t checked at all. So again, that’s a great opportunity to you know, to teach people, you know, on that atrial fibrillation, again, it’s a diagnosis that we can often reverse, we can limit, there are natural anticoagulants that people can use. Not everybody should be on a blood thinner. For anyone who’s listening. There’s a website called chadsvasc.org Chad’s ch a DS vasca, VA, S C dot o RG. And again, that is a online calculator set up by cardiologists to show people what their annual stroke risk is. And again, we want to teach people and say, hey, if your risk of having a stroke with atrial fibrillation is 4%, can we lower that down naturally, holistically? Do you need a pharmaceutical Do you want to take a pharmaceutical blood thinner for an annual stroke risk of 4% and the pharmaceutical lowers it down to 1.5%? Again, according to their data, so again, the result just this is about education. You know it you know, you and I are educating people right now, there are so many different approaches to atrial fibrillation. And again, you don’t need the pharmaceuticals you don’t need the blood thinners you don’t need ablations sometimes you need those things but again, talk to a doctor to to get that opinion and like we talked about you know before financially ablations cardiology visits, ancillary testing that the cardiologist do. They think they’re doing the right thing. And in some cases they are. But the one thing that everybody knows they make a ton of money doing that. I’m not opposed to people making money. But again, we want to do it by giving people health and not sickness.

Ed Jones 25:22
Oh, wow, just rings My bells. Dr. Wolfson, that’s so direct, and also very honest, there’s no doubt. Now, just to touch real quickly on it, you know, the drug of choice, and you tell me if I’m wrong, but I think most people, at least in this area who have an AFib diagnosis, because again, a fib causes spinning in these chambers, which increases blood clot risk. They’re on Coumadin. And then what happens with Coumadin Of course, sometimes you have a hemorrhagic stroke, which means you bleed out, sometimes you’re freezing cold all the time, you don’t feel well. And it can be, you know, just really decreased quality of life significantly. By course, they’re they’re pushed with such fear mongering that they’re, they’re unwilling to ever miss one dose, which if you’re on Coumadin, you got to do what you’re told until you just do something not to be on it. But what are the and you’re not going to say that they should get off Coumadin and get on this, but what are the natural anticoagulants because I love nattokinase. What do you what do you recommend?

Dr. Wolfson 26:21
Yeah, you know, the, certainly for many years, it was warfarin, brand name Coumadin, and that had all kinds of problems, including the fact that it works, because it inhibits vitamin K. Yet, professionals like you and I are always talking about the benefits of vitamin K. So if Coumadin Warfarin is an inhibitor of vitamin K, then that’s not a good thing, and it’s not a good thing again leads to enhanced vascular calcification, for example. When we talk now, mostly the people who are now taking quote unquote, blood thinners, anticoagulants, they’re taking these newer oral anticoagulants, things like Pradaxa, Xarelto, Eliquis. And but you know, to your point, they all can cause hemorrhagic strokes, they can all cause catastrophic bleeding. If you’re in a car accident, while you’re on one of those, you’re in serious trouble if trauma happens. So back to your point, can we use things that are that are more natural, and again, stack them on top of the right food, the right lifestyle, the right thought processes, and natto kinase is a great example of that the Japanese have studied that. For years, they’ve actually studied against the warfarin and people do just as well. Again, those are smaller studies. And we don’t have a ton of data. But I will say this is that for people that have a lower stroke risk with a fib on that chadsvasc scoring system. None of my patients have ever had a stroke, when they are at lower risk Chad score of two or less under my care. So again, all the things that we do natto kinase is a fantastic product. There are others as well, that would help kind of, again, keeping the blood naturally thin. But But let me just talk about natto kinase in the sense that back in the 80s, when somebody was having a heart attack the treatment, the only treatment back then was a clot buster called Steptokinase, and it was like that liquid drain-o, that would go in there. And again, it would be injected through the veins to open up that artery that was blocked. That was streptokinase you just mentioned, natto kinase and again, this kinase enzyme that changes the particular molecular structure and allows these clots based on fibrin to be broken up. And again, they work they work successfully to do so natto kinase, typically one, one cap, two times a day, possibly three times a day away from food. Excellent, excellent part of the strategy.

Ed Jones 28:56
I love it, love it. Well, at this point, I want you to tell people, if they are listening, they have a family member themselves that are has a diagnosis of a fib or any cardiac issues, and they can’t find services locally that could appeal to their place in life and their mentality. How would they contact you for an appointment?

Dr. Wolfson 29:16
Well, you know, I don’t like to think of myself as a second opinion. I like I’d like to think of myself as a first opinion. But that being said, hey, if a doctor has told you one thing, and you want to hear possibly an alternative Yeah, feel free to to get a hold of our office. You can go to our website at natural heart doctor calm, that’s natural heart doctor calm. And I know you guys again have been a huge advocate for my book and a promoter of my book, The Paleo Cardiologist, the natural way to heart health. If you’re looking to kind of introduce someone to me the whole paradigm of healthy heart living, I think the book is a fantastic place to go. So you know again, if you guys are carrying a book you want to get it from you You guys feel free. We do also have a website called freeheartbook.com, you can also get it over there. But the most important thing is get the book, give it to someone that you love. And hopefully together we can make them a healthier person and in doing so to it right. And it’s not just about atrial fibrillation. But as we live that healthy lifestyle and eat the right foods and testing and evidence based supplements. That’s how we get the 100 year heart. That’s how we prevent heart attacks and strokes and atrial fibrillation and we prevent dementia and Parkinson’s and cancer and everything else that we do. So again, I appreciate you having me on your show.

Ed Jones 30:38
Yes, sir. And, you know, the people who I’d speak to and of course, what I have, you know, we’re really a wellness clinic, we just have a great store. But we also have, we have 17 practitioners and everything else, many people who would counsel with us will come to you first. But most people of course, end up kind of mini crashing on their health before they actually search out different options. And they have to learn the hard way. So I love it. And and again, your site is natural heart doctor.com. And I’m just so thrilled that you were able to take the time out, it’s your your sights are wonderful, we’re gonna keep plugging, you are going to be buddies forever, and you’re changing the world. And you know, always say, I used to say on my other podcast, the holistic navigator, I separate the world into two classes of people, learners and non learners. And I love the fact that you are such a learner, and you’re so open, and you’re so willing to share, and you’re not trying to make the $5 million salary. Because if you and I both know, and I don’t know you that, well, if we do the right thing, we’re going to have enough of what we need, because we’re going to serve people, we’re going to serve their heart. And that’s what you’re doing with you and your family. And you talk the talk, you walk the walk, you know, you’re not telling me as a cardiologist at, you know, I think you need to be on these for pharmaceuticals, as you sit there with 60 pounds overweight, leaning over a desk, that just doesn’t bring true to me. And I just think you are changing the world for the better place. And I’m glad I can call you my friend, my friend.

Dr. Wolfson 32:07
I again, I appreciate it so much. And yeah, what you guys are doing over there, nutrition world and all the information you’re getting out there. There’s a lot of people against our message. And, you know, for a whole variety of reasons. But you know, like you mentioned, I think that, you know, again, I certainly made a lot of money as a conventional cardiologist and I gave that all up to do the right thing. And, you know, it sounds, you know, a little cliche, but as I started to, you know, as I got married, and I learned all this information from my wife, as she opened up my eyes, as a DC doctor of chiropractic, and she said, You got to become a DC doctor of cause. But then as we started having children and again, it became a matter of Yeah, what do you know, at the, at the end of life? What do I say that I, you know, you know, that I well, I stayed in the system, I did it for the money. So we would have, you know, XYZ, you know, toys and whatnot. Or I can look at my children and say No, I, I left the security, I left the matrix, I left all of that behind to do the right thing. And, you know, it’s been, it’s been almost 10 years. And it’s been a phenomenal journey. And it puts me in touch with people like you and, and all of your listeners and again, our tribe are heard, you know, our community. And it’s really, it’s really exciting. And I think the future is very bright for all of us.

Ed Jones 33:25
I agree my friend and I think even despite the hard two years we’ve had it’s really opened so many doors I think has opened quicker than it would have been otherwise. And you know, you never failed on being honest with your opinions during the during the pandemic and did it very, very strongly and tactfully though so thank you my friend and you are a hero in my mind and I know other people would believe that too. So take care your family’s beautiful and we will be talking probably in six months about some other topic with cardiac health. Keep on keeping on.