Stop Snot with Specialized Enzymes

The temperature is dropping outside as we move into the winter season and for many of us that means illness, especially sinus and mucus trouble. We know the signs. The tingling at the back of our throats, the subtle cough, the slightly stuffy nose. But before we know it, we've moved into a full-blown sinus infection that sticks around for weeks. While the obvious choice is to rest and let the body heal, sometimes we can take supplements to help the body recover more quickly. On this week's episode we look at a specialized enzyme formula that can help stop mucus and help us breathe normally once again.

 

Meet Julia Craven:

Our guest today is Julia Craven. Julia is the VP of Education and Innovation for Enzymedica. She has been in the industry for over 30 years and is an expert in digestive and therapeutic enzymes. She has experience as a product formulator, as a traditional herbalist, certified yoga instructor and is a lifelong learner. We’re proud to have her as our guest this week.

 

Some Points We Discuss:

  • 3:43 - Healthy versus unhealthy mucus production.
  • 4:50 - Honoring the body's natural wisdom.
  • 7:13 - 3 steps to honor your body during mucosal illnesses.
  • 12:00 - Enzyme supplements that target mucus and how it works.
  • 16:04 - Enzyme function in the immune system.
  • 19:34 - How much of an enzyme supplement should you take?
  • 20:50 - Are there any interactions with blood thinners?
  • 21:46 - I have a sensitive stomach, are enzymes okay for me?
  • 25:53 - What if I don't have much mucus? Can enzymes still help with immune support?
  • 28:06 - There's a new vegan vitamin D3!

Julia Craven 0:00
We see the cycles of people year after year, they get a simple cold, it's a sinus infection for three months, and there's a better way. And the first, like you mentioned, nature's wisdom, really understanding, I've got something going on. I think I'm gonna be a little gentle with myself today. I think I'm gonna try and maybe even get hot, steaming, you know, increase the body's temperature increases enzyme activity. You know, this is why we get fever, right, the body's wisdom. So, step one is, notice, stop, relax, tend to your immune system. Step two is the dietary things. And then step three can be some supplementation and some

Brian Strickland 0:37
you're listening to the nutrition world podcast, a show about navigating the intricacies of holistic wellness. We're a natural health food store located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we believe that optimal health and peak performance should be accessible to everyone.

Ed Jones 1:01
Welcome, everyone to nutrition worlds podcast and today we're going to talk about a topic that I think all of us I know all of us has dealt with, and that is mucus, and also immune system. Welcome, Julia from insome medica. You've been on two of our podcasts, one on heartburn and one on brain fog. Thank you for joining us today.

Julia Craven 1:21
It is always my pleasure to come back and have conversations with you. It's great fun,

Ed Jones 1:25
you probably I think are the number the number one as far as the variety of conversations we've had you flew in here from California, you our Vice President of education in America, but you also have a lot of life experience. And, you know, the conversation of mucus is kind of unusual, and it is snot to be taken lightly.

Julia Craven 1:48
So that's a perfect segue into what you know, I call some of the enzymes that can work with mucus, and I literally just say they're the snot stoppers. Okay,

Ed Jones 1:58
good. Well, you know, back in history in the 1800s. Pastor who certainly was very famous for discovering the germ theory of disease, well, he had one of his best friends, which was Claude Bernard had an opposing view of that, and Claude Bernard felt that it was the terrain that really created most disease. And actually, historians say that on pestiferous, deathbed, he recounted the germ theory a lot, not totally, and said, the terrain is what counts. And what does that mean? It actually means and I think we can segue into this very nicely with the conversation of mucus, mucus, excessively, the unhealthy mucus is a breeding ground for bacteria and viruses. That's why often in my 43 year career when people come to me and say, I get this sinus infection every year, and you know, I have to take antibiotics and and, and, and it's really the platform, it's really the the body itself is putting together a soil that's attracting this bacteria. And part of that is this excessive mucus, because what bacteria and viruses love is darkness, moisture, and heat. And this is like fertilizer for bacteria and viruses. And so we can't help sometimes because I'm actually this year, I've had two different episodes of a lot of mucus. And with that is one it's uncomfortable, we none of us like it, especially when you speak a lot. And two is it sets you up for a B, C, D, many things that we wouldn't have had if we didn't have the mucus. So let's talk about first off healthy versus unhealthy mucus.

Julia Craven 3:43
So mucus can be a natural response of the immune system. So when we have nasal mucus, one of the things that's happening is the immune system is saying, I need a way to carry this out of the body. And that's a natural, normal, healthy response. But what happens is it gets out of whack. We either have dietary choices that haven't helped us. So the immune system is just not able to keep up. Too much mucus is created and then it gets stuck. And we've all had that where it's just like stuck right here. And it's very, very hard to clear that. So that would be the unhealthy mucus. The same goes in your gut, no, people will always think mucus is not a good thing. But the more that we learn about the gut, there is a very healthy and normal mucosal layer in the gut. And that is part of what helps to protect those delicate cells in the gut from you know, invaders, basically. So it's important to realize that not all mucus is bad, but when we're starting to feel a lot of mucus, that's when we started to turn a corner into this maybe isn't a healthy accumulation of mucus, but originally, it's actually a really good response of the immune system.

Ed Jones 4:50
Again, it goes back to me the ancient wisdom of honoring the body's systems that were put in place for the perfection of our health, and we've lost First, the instincts about that, and certainly would not want to be in a world without science. But science has some times can be a negative thing because they don't take a step back and honor the mother nature and the power of what we were built for, which is self healing and staying healthy. And drugs can help and certainly save our life at certain places. But they really don't help us produce a better homeostasis, a better resilience against disease, they just get us through a crisis temporarily. And that's one of the downfalls to traditional medicine. Now, as far as mucus, I think all of us can also remember a time when we were young, and we had what we would call an Iron Stomach. One reason and and when I say that, I mean, you could eat anything, and it would never bother. You never had heartburn, you never had any issues, never had nausea, this, that and whatever, why biggest reasons, we had plenty of that healthy mucus, that mucous lining and layer protects the whole intestinal tract. And as we age, someday, I'm gonna get to be old right now, I'm 65. But I have less mucus than I did when I was 25. There is no doubt, and we're not gonna talk about on this podcast, but there are things that can help the healthy mucus like DGL and other options that people use a huge fan of that. But then we're going to, let's go back into, like, what I've experienced this year twice, is the heavy duty mucus that isn't, well, first off, it's conducive to us being sicker. But it is the body's wisdom trying to wash things out and trying to get it better. But in the process, we need to understand that we can help this process so that we don't fall backwards into another sickness. It's like, you know, dogs and animals that are not taken care of very well in the world. And, you know, the and more unhealthy they get, the more parasites and fleas they're gonna get. And that's why raising the health of an animal and us being one of those is the best method to prevent disease and to help us maintain optimal health. So as far as me getting rid of mucus and or other people, let's just say, you know, I started getting sick, Lee or even allergies, I don't have to be sick. I have a lot of mucus, what would be step one, and maybe as far as diet and hydration. Tell us a little bit Julian?

Julia Craven 7:13
Well, like you said, it's all about reconnecting to the body's wisdom. And so what we tend to do in modern culture is say, Well, I still have to go to work today. And I need to function and this is really irritating to me. So I'm just going to take some decongestants and not rest and not tend to my health. So the first thing is diet. Honestly, I mean, after rest, if you have the ability to do that, sometimes we do sometimes we don't do too busy schedules. But diet, avoiding sugar, avoiding dairy, avoiding grains, a lot of times myself included grains actually create a lot of mucus for me. So really knowing your body and knowing what those things are for you. And then tending to that, not just popping the pill that will you know, dry up all the mucus, because as you were saying a lot of times that takes to like step 123. So now we've taken the antihistamine we've got a bacterial environment in there, we've taken the antihistamine, it's dried everything up unnaturally, we haven't tended to our immune system on the side with rest, and with proper dietary choices. And now we have a bacterial infection that healed in to our sinuses. And those are the folks and it happens seems to happen the same people every year, right? We see the cycles of people year after year, they get a simple cold, it's a sinus infection for three months, and there's a better way. And the first like you mentioned, nature's wisdom, really understanding I've got something going on there. I'm gonna be a little gentle with myself today. I think I'm gonna try and maybe even get hot, some steaming, you know, increase the body's temperature increases enzyme activity. You know, this is why we get fevers, right, the body's wisdom. So, step one is notice, stop, relax, tend to your immune system. Step two is the dietary things. And then step three can be some supplementation and some help.

Ed Jones 9:09
I love that and we'll talk about in a minute, the supplementation. You know, I've feel that every challenge of my life can be a teacher for me, and this year at 2022. I've certainly had a little bit more challenges than I used to, as far as I've had a couple episodes that lasted longer than I wanted. It's easy to fall into that mental state of I want this gone right now. And I have to encourage people to one is we if we don't honor the wisdom of our body, and we go around it like taking drugs that drive things up, you're going to pay a price for that. Yes, you may feel better tomorrow and be able to go back to work. But you're setting yourself up for a downfall down the road. It would be like you have your retirement account and all of a sudden you want to buy a new car But you're gonna buy one that costs twice as much as you should you keep drawing things out of an account, you're going to have less at the end when you need it. And what is the end is as we age you are you have to work harder for other times not really the most con to us as we age, I say that a lot. And setting yourself up for failure is the American way, basically, because traditional medicine thinks that all symptoms should be eliminated. And they do it by artificial means. And occasionally, we have to do it, I will admit to that. But on an ongoing basis, like the fever thing, and when I was feeling rotten, this is what and there's moments where I could have a little bit of panic, kinda like, this is terrible. Why am I feeling this way I beat up on myself and what can I do to feel better quickly. But really, and truly what I kept going back to because of witnesses for 43 years, trust my body, encourage my body work with my body don't go against the natural processes that we were put on this earth for 10s of 1000s of years that worked. And so I got to where I did the heat, I did a nebulizer. I'm a huge fan of nebulizing now with actually things like hydrogen peroxide, and, you know, rest, which I'm not the best at. I'm terrible at that. But I doing everything else. Did I get better in a day? No, I didn't. But I did get better over a reasonable period of time. And you know what I've My motto is It's okay to not be okay. Temporarily. It really is. And we panic, because we have to, we want to fix it right now. And you know what traditional options can make you feel like you fixed it, but they're really digging a deeper hole. So if person has, they're having a lot of mucus, they want to honor the system, the body. We talked about diet you did supplementally. It's really cool, what you're going to speak about because this, again, is honoring the body and it has no negative side effects tell us about enzymes that actually can help that mucus.

Julia Craven 12:00
So there's a specific enzyme, and it's a kind of protease or protein breaking down enzyme called Muco, lays. And Muco lays actually just breaks down mucus, that is its job.

Ed Jones 12:12
That is what it does. Now we have this in our body naturally,

Julia Craven 12:15
we do not have Muco lays in our body naturally. But we have other kinds of enzymes that act similar to mica lays. So it's it's such a cool enzyme, because I enzymes are interesting in that they don't care why the mucus is there. So it's not like oh, well, you have an immune issue. And you say you have some sinus congestion from an immune challenge. You use one kind of enzyme or you have seasonal allergies, you use another kind of enzymes, which we have that with many other things that we work with, we have that with different herbs and essential oils, we're going to be very particular, enzymes are so fun, because enzymes don't care, they just break things down. So Muco lays is the enzyme that simply breaks down mucus, it doesn't matter if it's you're having mucus from an immune challenge. It doesn't matter if it's seasonal hay fever. It doesn't matter if it's because you filled your face with dairy last night. And you know, or sometimes people just have a lot of mucus naturally, from undiagnosed or unrealized I should say food intolerances. A lot of people with food intolerances have that continual nasal drip. And they're like, what isn't this normal? Yes, no, it is not, please just try stopping to eat some grains and some dairy for a while and see what happens. But what's so neat about enzymes is that they just simply don't care. They're going to break it down. No matter the reason. Even snoring. Sometimes it's so much mucus, even snoring can be helped sometimes with enzymes, which is a really cool trick to know if you live with someone who snores.

Ed Jones 13:46
Well, that that is a great option for people, especially those with chronic. It's so funny this morning at the gym, a guy came up to me and said, I've had this chronic drainage for years, what should I do about it. And here we are, again talking about it. I will have to mention that I think people really need to address mold in their house. If they have chronic mucus, you cannot be extremely healthy. If you're exposed to mold on and on and on. And in our older homes. And in our unventilated and our tight spaces. All of us have exposure and that doesn't mean you're going to have mold within you, but it can happen. And once you do, we have to actually think about not just how eliminate mucus but maybe go down another avenue of okay, we have a lot of mold. It's not diagnoseable easily traditional medicine does not even acknowledge it. And so many people with chronic sinus infections is actually the underlying situation is mold. So I encourage people to make that may be another podcast for another time. Absolutely. But on this enzyme, is it something you take between meals or with meals,

Julia Craven 14:48
you would want to take it between meals because all enzymes are gonna break down what they come in contact with first if they're formulated properly for the digestive system. So ideally, you take it between meals on an empty stomach? Next question is always people ask what does an empty stomach mean? Okay, well, we need to tune into our bodies a little bit more if we're not understanding what an empty stomach is. But the rule of thumb is about two hours after a meal or half an hour before a meal. So you know, empty stomach, whatever that might mean for you, especially with the size of a meal. And what is so nice about this kind of product is that it's also having a secondary benefit. We've talked about the bacteria and that breeding ground, will proteases are so interesting, because they can also break down the bacteria. So we're not just breaking down the mucous. And by the way, the enzymes are not going to go on a mucus rampage, they're not going to break down the good mucus, they actually just break down the infected type of mucus or the excessive mucus, and then you get that secondary effect of helping to break down whatever has caused it. So it has a really wonderful one to really helping to deliver you in a better place after the mucus has broken down.

Ed Jones 16:04
And when you say like breaking down the bacteria or a virus, it's going to work on the outside membranes of it so that then our immune system can actually see it clearer, more clearly be able to attack it better.

Julia Craven 16:14
And actually, it cleaves it and starts to break it down. So here's what's very cool about enzymes proteases, for immune health, is that they work just like our macrophages work.

Ed Jones 16:27
So that's part of the immune systems. First line defense is like the arsenal that comes out when we first start getting sick.

Julia Craven 16:33
There are those big white blood cells that circulate around our bloodstream. And you know, people call them like the trash team of the of the bloodstream, that they're just doing that initial pick up. So macrophages, the big white blood cells actually have proteases in the middle of them really, yep. So enzymes are working just like our own immune system. So when a macrophage comes in contact with an antigen, which is whatever the immune system has basically marked for removal, put a beacon on, to be removed, macrophages come up next to it and envelop it. And envelop as I say, it eats it, basically, because it pulls it into its own body. And in the middle, it has a digestive system, basically, and what's in there, but proteases. So taking systemic proteolytic enzymes, whether it's for mucus, or whether it's to help to fight off an immune challenge, is working in a very, very similar way, as our own white blood cells. It's really, really neat. And if people really truly understood how this worked, we have such an immune partner in proteolytic enzymes, because they can also combine with other things that you're doing. So say you have an herbal protocol that you just love that works great for you. Wonderful protease is with it, it's going to work better. Very, very good for combinations with immune challenges. And again, it doesn't matter if it's a bacteria or a virus, anything that's protein based, that's an antigen, it will be removed. It's an incredible blood cleanser.

Ed Jones 18:03
Wow. And you know, I think we all know people who seem to be so super healthy, most of their life, and they're like, never get anything and they're just like tanks, and they just very resilient, I'll bet you if we could test enzymes that have very high levels would be my guess. And like all things in our body, as we age, we generally go from optimal to less than optimal to less less and less simply because I mean, we rent these bodies, they don't they don't have full capacities at each decade, things less. And that's why we have to work harder at managing optimal health. And that's also why it's easy to fall in the trap of I don't feel well, Doc, what pill can I take or I go to the drugstore and over the counter, I'm looking at all these things, this will make you feel great. Feeling great for a moment has very little to do with what you're doing for your health. And we have to be wise about this, in my opinion. And I see so many marketing is so powerful that it's I mean, I fall for it. Occasionally I'll be like this, this pill is gonna make me feel better quickly, and I just want to feel better quickly. I don't really care. Well, once in a blue moon, it's not gonna hurt anybody. But if you do that ongoing as we age, you're going to dig a deeper hole of less than optimal health. Now as far as other enzymes for the immune system or for staying well. Is there now mucus like you, I think the look show the bottle here of this particular one by Informatica. And it's again, amazing. Would that be twice a day dosing?

Julia Craven 19:34
Well, it's really dependent on what's going on. So if an individual is having a lot of mucus, so say that was to happen to me, and I had in fact, when I had COVID, that was I basically it was a bad cold for me. And so I was taking two or three, three times a day on an empty stomach. You can certainly take a little bit more than that if you feel like especially when it's a chronic condition. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time but you want to feel Don't load and get a higher dose first. And then you can start to taper down. So, you know, the instructions, say one or two capsules three times a day, but you can go up for very acute. But again, it's about learning your body's wisdom and learning how to listen. I used to have the most insanely terrible seasonal allergies. And at that point, I had been in the industry 15 years, and I was doing everything. And I still had really, really bad allergies. So I was taking a lot of Mukul A's for a while. And I could actually hear the mucus being broken up in my sinuses, you can hear in like a change in pressure. So it'd be like, Okay, it's working. I don't need to take any more. So that's one of the hardest things for us, right, is encouraging people to listen to their bodies and adjust appropriately.

Ed Jones 20:50
Yes, yes. And I will say, you know, if people are on meds being treated for things, ask your doctor before you do these things, is their interactions with blood thinners.

Julia Craven 21:00
So for certain kinds of proteases Yes. And that's what we call the fibrinolytic proteases, the ones that break down fibrin in our blood. fibrin is that sticky substance that helps our blood to clot. And there's a couple of enzymes called natto kinase and Sara peptide days that are specially fibrinolytic. And so they you wouldn't want to take them if you were on warfarin, or you would want to be working with a practitioner to get your blood levels checked. We've had many, many people over the years successfully be able to come off of their blood thinning medication while being able to work with a practitioner. So that's, that's again, a lovely thing about enzymes, there's very few contraindications. So they're extremely safe to work with. But that is the one contraindication

Ed Jones 21:46
I love serrapeptase and nattokinase. So much, I've recommended it for 25 years, I take it every day a will the rest of my life, because I don't want to die of a blood clot I want, especially during the virus that we all are, you know, dealt with the past three years. There's a lot of implications with it causing some problems. And last question on the on this is occasionally somebody with a real sensitive stomach can feel a little gnawing sensation, what is going on? And what should they do about that?

Julia Craven 22:16
Well, the first thing to do is eat some food, because the enzymes will start to go to work on some food instead of whatever's going on. Right. So what's going on is that, generally speaking, it's an adhesion of some form. So it's some alteration of gut tissue or some sensitivity. And what's happening is the proteases do what the proteases do best is they go in, they help to break down damaged tissue. So that breaking down of damaged tissue is actually exactly what the body would do. It's accelerating the healing process. So that can feel like snowing, warm, sometimes extreme cramping, even I hear that very rarely, but it does happen. And that would be more like a duodenal issue. So typically, that's what's going on in MIT, you know, we all have little adhesions in our gut over time. So it can just be that that is what's occurring, eat some food back off your dose,

Ed Jones 23:10
maybe go down to one pill, if you're able to handle just a teeny bit of it, you're doing a good thing.

Julia Craven 23:16
Absolutely. Because especially with like the natto kinase and the Sarah pep today's natto kinase specifically is so cool, because it not only directly breaks down fibrin, so that clotting factor in our blood, but it helps us to increase our own naturally occurring enzyme called plasmon, which is our own enzyme that breaks down fibrin. Oh, so as we age, we create more and more fibrin and less and less plasmon natto kinase, specifically, the NS K SD form, which is when the all the research was done on actually increases plasmon and breaks down fibrin. So you're kind of turning back time. It's really neat.

Ed Jones 23:59
To me, there's nothing more profoundly motivating to me than to mimic Mother Nature, and the magical system that we have the wisdom of the pharmacy within, and encourage that pharmacy and fine tune it. And again, and I never want to act like I don't think there's value in traditional medicine and advice because they're very smart people. I think the system's broke. I think the people are amazing that are in it, because they got into it because they want help. Right? And but the thing is, unless something's patentable, and it can have a lot of profits, it's not going to get in the toolbox of a lot of traditional people. And it's not their fault, right? Because no one's there to teach them. And so we have to learn on our own and I use the term you know, as as learned to take control of our health. And also repeat often on many of my podcasts, I separate the world into classes of people, learners and non learners. If you're a non learner and you're going to age in this society, you are doomed. You're doomed. because if you don't have a toolbox, you don't have practitioners, you don't have a team put together, that's going to help you through these mini crisis. And these little roadblocks that come with living. They just do, I don't care how many pills I take and how many times I'm at the gym, there's going to be some issues with me as we age. What do I do, if I don't have anybody except the tradition person that I'm going to call that one, and I'm going to be on pharmaceuticals. And I don't have another choice. And I'm not going to encourage the natural healing of my body. Now, if I have a terrible strep infection, I want that person. Give me what you got, if I have a heart attack, I'm not coming to the nutrition world, to go find Hawthorne to help my heart, I want to go to hospital. That's where these people save lives. But as far as chronic, that's where I think that weed down the downfall is, and we have so many great options. And as far as other enzymes like enzyme defense, what would that one also be for?

Julia Craven 25:53
So this is the immune this is, you know, this is your your total protease formula. So it also does have some Muco lays in it, but far more in the mucus stops. So mucus was truly your number one issue, the mica lays would be your product, it has 60 milligrams of Michelis, whereas this has 16 Gotcha. So but it is that supportive help. This is hi hi hi protease in some serrapeptase days in there, really to support that immune system.

Ed Jones 26:19
So that's that's like, Okay, I don't have a lot of mucus, but I want to support the immune system, I want to stay well, and be prepared. If something happens, that would be the thing to take, yeah, again, between meals

Julia Craven 26:29
between meals. And if something does happen, if you feel that immune challenge occurring, you can increase your dose again. So knowing yourself knowing also, you know, some people are very sensitive, some people less, so I'm a person who needs to take a lot of things, usually to get an effect. That's just my body. So I, for instance, when I travel, so lots of immune challenges, lots of weird bugs, and viruses and things that are not in my normal environment. My microbiome isn't set up for those challenges when I get on three airplanes, and go through the airports. And I'm stressed and hopefully able to get some good food. So something like enzyme defense can come in and be the cleanup crew, and help with that cleanup so that I never do get sick.

Ed Jones 27:15
Like most of us had a period of time where we hardly ever got sick. Why was that? It wasn't luck. It's because we had we had the terrain was so in tune and was powerful and reactive quickly, that even if we got a hold of a microbe, we often didn't even feel it because we had the magical pharmacy within. I just love that. And I love setting yourself up for success. I love this conversation. And the fact that we've done two again, you've done one on brain fog, and the other and heartburn. If people want to go on to this, they go to YouTube nutrition world channel, under all videos, and you can go down and see you on the other two videos. And they were extremely informative. I had no idea about brain fog and enzyme. So I learned a tremendous amount last time, Julie and any last point you'd like to make. And I know that there isn't new option on vitamin D that we have not had before.

Julia Craven 28:06
Yep, it's really, I just love the innovation that occurs, especially with vitamin D and how everybody is wanting to take vitamin D. But sometimes vegans, and people who are avoiding animal protein foods are really having a challenge getting enough vitamin D. And really that's everyone right now. It's hard with getting enough exposure to sun and all the things that we know, right. So typically Vitamin D has been from sheep's wool. And that's the long history of vitamin D. But there are new forms now. And the one that ends America has just launched, uses algae, for its vitamin D source. And it's that algae that in the presence of UV light changes and creates its own vitamin D. Some other plants do this too, mushrooms do a great job of that specifically shitai mushrooms. So because it's grown and can be and and can not be harvested from nature, it can be certified organic, and it's sustainable. So so far, we're the only vitamin D on the market that can make those claims. And it's all because of the source is something that's incredibly innate green food source. We all know how good our green drinks are. This is basically vitamin D in your green drink. It's pretty cool.

Ed Jones 29:21
I love that I love the innovation. I love connecting with companies that not only are innovative but have ethics and have a philosophy that is to me very wise, that can help people again, be educated and have a toolbox of options. Because, again, I'm gonna finish my personal story. Once you start feeling terrible, and you have you know, fevers and you have this and you have that you don't have the capacity to look for options at that point. That's why we do this so that you can be already modestly educated. Have your game plan even maybe have prepared products in your home which one day had to call the store and have one of my staff members run me some supplements home, and I got a bunch in my house. But I didn't have the right ones because I didn't think I was ever gonna get sick, because I never do. My daughter said during her she started to she said, I've only seen dad sick one time and 32 years 2022 has been a little bit different and COVID did change things a little. Again, I feel it strengthened me it made me more grateful and more humble. And I learned a lot about again, going back to trusting our body. But trust alone needs to also have support and support from a natural support system, not one that's completely synthetically based that can knock you into another world. Yeah, I might do one thing here, but it's gonna do three others that we may not like. So thank you, Julia for being here and helping again to educate people. And I'm sure that we will get you on podcast number four down the road because we have plenty to talk about you and I talk personally, and you are such a wealth of information not only professionally, but on your personal level. People who lived the life and also learn the life are the ones that I really regard as experts. And you don't have to have 14 degrees on the wall to do this. So much of wisdom is part of our health. And wisdom seems to be kicked out of the scientific method. We need science and we need wisdom and there's an art to medicine there's an art to healing is not all about textbook. So I just got rambled on and on. And there we go. But thank you so much for flying in from California and we will be talking to you I'm sure in another three to six months.

Julia Craven 31:34
Absolutely. It's always my pleasure to meet with you.

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