Natural Remedies for PMS and PMDD

Dr. Carrie Jones 0:00
So when we’re looking at this roller coaster, we are predominantly looking in that luteal phase is where leading up to your period. And ideally, ideally, you make absolute boatloads of progesterone, milligrams worth and when I say milligrams like if you think of your average supplements, you know you take 250 milligrams of magnesium, you take 1000 milligrams of vitamin C, you should be making 25 to 40 milligrams of progesterone, it’s a lot of progesterone, where’s your estrogen your estradiol, you only make micrograms, so much smaller amounts micrograms. The problem is if that changes if you don’t make enough progesterone,

Brian Strickland 0:43
you’re listening to the nutrition world podcast, a show about navigating the intricacies of holistic wellness. We’re a natural health food store located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we believe that optimal health and peak performance should be accessible to everyone.

Cady Kuhlman 1:04
All right, thank you guys for joining. We are on nutrition worlds podcast. And I am Katie Coleman. I’m co owner of nutrition role with my father, Ed Jones. And we are honored to be here today with Dr. Carrie Jones. This is one of the one of the biggest topics I hear in my time spent at our store is on what we’re going to speak on and that is PMS and PMDD. And you may not even be familiar with the term PMDD. But we’re gonna get into that today and dive into what that looks like. And we want to give you guys hope that there this doesn’t have to be the way that you are existing. And we’re gonna go over what this looks like and, you know, symptoms, strategies and all of it but before we do that, I want to formally introduce Dr. Carrie Johnson here today and so, she is a naturopathic doctor. She’s an internationally recognized speaker, consultant and educator on the topic of women’s health and hormones with over 20 years in the industry. She is dubbed the queen of hormones. And so Dr. Jones is a naturopathic physician who did her two year residency focused on women’s health and endocrinology. She went on to get her Master’s of Public Health and was one of the first to become board certified through the American Board of naturopathic endocrinology. She was the first medical doctor for precision analytical, which I find so fascinating. So she was one of the creators of the Dutch test, one of my favorite hormonal test, and she is the first head of the medical education for Rupa health. She also has a very popular podcast that I love listening to call the root cause medicine podcast has over 3 million downloads. And so she’s currently chief medical officer at new ethics formulations, a company that we love within our health food store. And she is head of the medical education at a metal metabolic mentor University. And so what an honor it is to be here with you today. Carrie, so let’s just hop on in and start diving into this topic.

Dr. Carrie Jones 2:56
Oh, absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, because I just as you can tell from my bio, live, eat, breathe hormones. It’s what I’ve been in the last 20 years. And you know, we were talking a little bit off podcast, that it would be so wonderful. If we had been taught about hormones at a young age, I was raised in Kentucky, and my hormonal experience health education, whatever you want to call it, the sex ed class was taught by the football coach. So you can imagine how that went. And I realized as I went through medical school residency and practice, so many women were like, I didn’t know that. Like, I didn’t know that thing about that hormone. I didn’t know that’s how my body worked. I would have fully menopausal women who have 234 children and they would go, You know what? I could get right? I just didn’t know that. Oh, my God, you don’t know you raise children. They’re like, I don’t know. Nobody taught me. Wow. I mean, this is a disservice because here they are coming into your store saying, I don’t feel well. I’m having these symptoms. I don’t know what it is. I’m getting blown off. Is there something that you have that can help me and I’m like, yes. Oh my gosh, there’s so much hope and there’s so much resource out there. And thankfully, you know, education like this podcast is really going to help

Cady Kuhlman 4:08
totally totally and exactly before we hopped on here and we’re live you know, I was even reminiscing as a personal story to myself I spent a lot of years on birth control pills and a lot of thought that was the answer for PMS at that time in my life so for 2016 to 21 or so and really lived in a place of even worsened PMS once I hit those birth control pills and that was a very common story among my friends. It’s a common story among people that come into our store that you know the answer for them when they were saying I don’t feel very well there I’m experiencing moodiness I’m experiencing cramping I’m experiencing heavier periods I was the only answer they received was get on this pill get on this progesterone get on this estrogen and and you know what we practice here at nutrition world and what you practice all day long is what’s the root cause. So is there is there an estrogen deficiency? Is there an ester Denon dominance is their progesterone deficiencies. Why are we guessing and throwing a potential hormone at someone that might actually be the opposite of what they really need? What if they’re already in an estrogen dominant situation? And then they’re thrown more Astra dials and more estrogen. And so, you know, I think that you’re here today to let’s just really flush out all of this, like, what does PMS look like? And what are symptoms so that we can start being aware as a female and as a, as a human listening to this, like, oh, hopelessness, anxiety, you know, down and out feelings that come a week before our cycle. And yet we feel that every month and don’t realize that maybe that’s a little bit dysfunctional, or something that we could fix, let’s go over what that kind of looks like.

Dr. Carrie Jones 5:45
And I love that you said that, because what happens is become registered as common. And therefore, common is associated with normal, when it’s not normal. So when women say to me, just like they say to you, I feel like right up to my period, I am moody, my breasts get big and they hurt. I am bloated, my maybe my bowel movements are changing, I’m constipated. Or on the other way of more loose stools. I, I’m retaining water, I’m craving I’m crying, or I’m angry, what is going on? And because it again, it maybe is happening every month or so regularly? And because your friends or your sisters or commercials on TV? make jokes about it, or say I have that too, then the disservice to us women is that? Well, it’s common. So you should just live with it, when in fact, that doesn’t mean it’s normal. It’s definitely as you said, more of a dysfunction. So I, I’m sure a lot of women listening are like, yep, check checked all of those boxes, I experienced all those things, even down to sleep, how we do or don’t sleep leading up to our period. I mean, it’s the hormonal system is all very intricately tied to every system in our whole body. And because as is, you know, when we shift, if we’re if you have a cycle, your hormones are actually shifting a little bit every day. And so we are constantly having to micro adjust to every day. And if they’re shifting, you know, it’s like, you know, a little too much or a little too little is going to be a problem. It’s got to be that Goldilocks just right for that day, for us to really feel good. And so PMS is common, but it doesn’t mean it’s normal.

Cady Kuhlman 7:33
Right? Right. And explain a little bit what’s PMDD? Because that’s the other part of the topic we want to talk about. And I don’t think that one’s as well coined, so people may not register what that is, but it is still common. I hear of it quite a bit. Yeah,

Dr. Carrie Jones 7:46
yeah. So PMDD stands for premenstrual dysphoric disorder. And sometimes it’ll get described as like a 10, out of 10, severe version of PMS. But really, it’s more than that. It’s it really heavily involves the mood. And main spin, I have had a lot of patients who have said like their entire world gets flipped upside down with the severity of the depression, the severity of their anxiety, the severity of their hopelessness, their inability to handle stress there are more triggered or sensitive to any kind of stressful situation. So maybe, when they get their period, like those first 10 or 14 days, if something stressful happens, they’re like, it’s fine, I can handle it. But then as they get closer to their period, they’re like it’s flipped upside down. I’m actually considering, you know, having myself admitted or I’m having a call my therapist or I’m really struggling so it can be well, we it does get advertised maybe as severe PMS, it’s not so much like, Oh, really bad breast tenderness, or really bad bloating or, you know, really bad water retention. It’s more that dysphoric mood that just completely flips you on your head.

Cady Kuhlman 8:58
Gotcha. Thank you. Okay, so describe to me so that women listening maybe a little bit of like body 101 For what is happening with hormones during a men’s or during a month during a whole phase of a female because, like you said, you were, you know, taught in high school sex ed. And it was very basic, and it didn’t go into any of this. I still think that we’re existing in our 30s 40s 50s and and having cycles and still not realizing there’s the luteal phase and follicular phase and, and you know, not that everyone has to know every name about all of that, but like what are the hormones doing during that this time? You know, during the 28 day cycle?

Dr. Carrie Jones 9:35
I have a joke. A girlfriend of mine is a double board certified gastroenterologist internist. And she’s in her 40s. She has kids and she was making the transition into more holistic Functional Medicine and away from hospital based conventional medicine. And so I was working with her to help her understand hormones. And she said to me, can you just can you just give me like a quick overview on the menstrual cycle, and I was like, you actually went to medical school, your double board certified. And she said, I know but not in that area, like I’m in a different section of the body. I, I don’t want to break the cycle, I get it, I got pregnant, I have kids, but you know, like, I’m not totally certain how it works. And I thought, wow, yes, that’s so common. Even in medical school, if it’s if you’re not an OBGYN, it can be a real struggle for everyone to understand. So basically, with your cycle, ideally, in theory, according to the books, you have a 28 day cycle, but honestly, you can vary anywhere from 24 to like 35 days. And so some months, you may be 28 days, right on the on the dot, and other months, you may find you’re 26, and then you’re 32. And then you go back to 26. It just sort of depends on how your ovaries work. And so that’s what’s considered a normal average cycle length. The first part of your cycle is called the follicular phase. The second part of your cycle is called the luteal phase. And what does decides if you’re in the first or the second part is where you ovulate or release the egg, which happens right in the middle. So in the first part of your cycle, that follicular phase, that’s when you get your period, so when you the first day of bleeding, true bleeding, that’s considered day one. So if somebody’s ever asked you to count, well, how many days is your cycle? Are you 26 days, 28 days, 32 days, I’m asking you to count from the day one a bleeding all the way until the day one of your next period. That’s that’s what we’re counting. So day one starts your follicular phase. And the reason we call it the follicular phase is you on your ovaries, you have a lot of follicles. And follicles are basically a fancy word for a house with cells around it that hold the egg inside. And those cells make hormones, estrogen or progesterone depending on what the brain decides. So in the first part, you are recruiting, growing, strengthening all these follicles because one of them has to release the egg at ovulation. And in that timeframe, you will have a lot of estrogen estradiol in particular, you’re supposed to your estrogen is rising, rising, rising, and then you get to about the middle of your cycle. Now you’re ready to ovulate. So you release the egg. And when you release that egg, now your cells start making more progesterone, and a little bit of estrogen. And a lot of women don’t realize this, they think, Well, I must make estrogen and progesterone every single day, all the time. And it’s actually not true your estrogen and progesterone follows what I call like a controlled roller coaster. So your estrogen is up, then it’s down, then it’s up a little bit. Whereas your progesterone is down, down, down. You release the egg and then it goes up really high like a big roller coaster, and then comes down again if you’re not pregnant. So once you ovulate, that second half is called the luteal phase. And the reason it’s called the luteal phase is those cells that make progesterone are called the corpus luteum. I don’t know who named these things, I would have named them something. I always joke like nope, like OPI nail polish, like something really fun and Right, right, memorable. But we call it the corpus luteum that structure and it makes progesterone. And so if you are not pregnant, then gradually over the course of about 14 days ish, those hormones drop and that drop in hormone, because you can only pump out so many, if you’re not pregnant will trigger your next period. If you are pregnant, then those hormones will stay up high because the act of implantation will tell the brain Hey, we’re pregnant, keep keep pumping out those hormones for a while. And then eventually the baby’s placenta will take over and make those hormones for you. In the pregnant mom. So it’s this again, like I said, it’s like a controlled roller coaster that goes up and down over the course of those, let’s say 28 days. But you can see because the roller coasters go up, up, up, up, up, they hit a point and then they come down, down, down, down. And that’s every single day. So you’re going a little bit up a little bit up a little bit up a little, you know, day by day. Sure. And then the next you know, and then all of a sudden, like a little down a little down a little down. And so it’s no wonder women can sometimes feel crazy, or that they’re losing their mind. And they’re like, I didn’t change anything. I’m like, Well, you didn’t externally. But internally, your roller coaster changed. And so that’s affecting everything in your body.

Cady Kuhlman 14:29
Totally. Okay, so go into a little bit for us to understand, like when someone’s experiencing PMS symptoms or that roller coaster effect, because literally the hormones are in a roller coaster. What’s going dysfunctional for some women to experience the side effects and other women to not what would your what would you kind of how would you explain that?

Dr. Carrie Jones 14:52
Yes. Okay, so first of all, remember the body is like a spider web. So if any part of a spider web gets plucked The entire spider web vibrates, it’s the same thing in your body. So we’re talking about estrogens and progesterone. But it’s going to affect your GI tract, it’s going to affect your brain hormones, your neurotransmitters, it actually even affects your immune system. And so by understanding this, if you say, Gosh, Carrie, when I get close to my period, I feel those symptoms, my my GI tract is I get more constipated. Or, gosh, when I get close to my period, I feel flu like I get weird immune system symptoms, or Gosh, when I get close to my period, I get headaches, or I get depression or I get anxiety. Remember, it’s a spiderweb effect. And so by these estrogen progesterone shifting in the right way or the wrong way, it is going to affect those hormones. So when we’re looking at this roller coaster, we are predominantly looking in that luteal phase is where leading up to your period. And ideally, ideally, you make absolute boatloads of progesterone, milligrams worth and when I say milligrams, like if you think of your average supplement, you know, you take 250 milligrams of magnesium, you take 1000 milligrams of vitamin C, you should be making 25 to 40 milligrams of progesterone, it’s a lot of progesterone, whereas your estrogen your estradiol, you only make micrograms, so much smaller amounts micrograms. The problem is if that changes, if you don’t make enough progesterone, let’s say instead of 25 to 40, you only make 10 Or five milligrams, but you make double the amount of micrograms of estradiol that you Your body is like counting on, you’re gonna get this incredible imbalance between your estradiol and your progesterone and our progesterone. Historically, we call it our pro gestation hormone, because it’s important for pregnancy and implantation. However, that’s not everyone’s goal. But it is also important for calming, soothing, relaxing feeling, okay? It also helps you not have heavy cloudy periods. It also helps you with water, reduce water retention, like we need good normal healthy levels of progesterone. Whereas estrogen is more that stimulating, growing go build, which is fine in normal healthy amounts. But when it’s excessive, now we’re like heavy periods, cloudy periods, fibroids, polyps, full tender breasts pain, and estrogen out of balance can when it’s elevated can also cause us to feel the effects of things like histamine, more histamine for people with allergies. We’re familiar with the word histamine. Well, histamine, you know, you may be getting close to your period. And you think, why is my nose running? Why is my skin itchy? Why do I have all this gas and bloating which can be histamine related? You know, why are my allergies worse. And just as I said earlier, the brain depression, anxiety, anger, your estrogen and progesterone play a role in your brain. So if they’re not in the ratios, we want them or the amounts that we want them, it’s going to affect serotonin, dopamine, GABA, glutamate, like all these neurotransmitters that we know play a role with mood, learning, focus, motivation, things like that. And so just by having those two little hormones out of balance, it can affect the whole system.

Cady Kuhlman 18:36
Okay, that was a beautiful description. So I hear constantly of women that are having to get on progesterone, because their progesterone numbers are so low. So why do you think that is? Why is there this estrogen dominance or this too much estrogen, you know, I know that we live in a society unfortunately, of, of estrogen that can be in our plastics in our water and toxins that are infiltrating into our bloodstream. And so I’m sure you can go into that. But is that one of the factors or the triggers, it’s creating more estrogen and then naturally, you’re going to have a lack of progesterone, when estrogen is so high, explain that a little bit. It can.

Dr. Carrie Jones 19:11
So when you make hormones of any kind, they’re pulsed out. So they’re not continuous. They’re not like a garden hose where you turn on or your kitchen sink, you turn on the water and just comes out all the time. They’re pulsed, think of like a heartbeat, right? You get like a lub dub, and then a pause and a lub dub and then a pause is the same in your hormones. So that that pulse that signal is reactive to what’s going on in the brain. And the brain is constantly scanning, to make sure we’re healthy enough, safe enough well enough to become pregnant if we wanted to. And that can upset a lot of people who are like, well, I don’t want to get pregnant. Like I know. I don’t want to get pregnant either. But the female body reproductively that’s how we’re designed, right and if you want to get pregnant, then this is helpful also for you to know. So if any, if there’s a disruption in the force, if there’s any kind of thing happening in the body stress, new different medications, transitioning off medications, moves, job stuff, changing time zones, over exercising under eating, illness, you’ve been sick lately. There’s thyroid issues, other auto immune, immune stuff, the brain goes, Ah, this is not a good time to release the egg or to make healthy levels of progesterone, pro gestation, so I’m not going to So either they don’t ovulate at all, which is called an ovulation, or they just don’t make that much progesterone. They’ll eke out some but not great levels. And so they will often be put on progesterone or something to support progesterone, which I’m okay with is long as you’re addressing the root cause, right? Because oftentimes, I get the question, I’m sure you do, too. I have low progesterone, what’s the one nutrient? What’s the one herb? What’s the one topical? To get my progesterone up? And my question is always the same? Well, why is it down? Right? What happened? You know, and even it could be something really small is like, oh, gosh, I just, man, I was just in Europe for a week, huge timezone shift came back, start trying to catch up stress. Okay, that makes sense. But it can be even really serious things. I mean, it can be, well, I got in a car accident, I have a concussion, okay, all that communication starts in my brain. And if so, my brain is not happy. Therefore, the rest of my hormones are not happy, or I started this new exercise program. Six months ago, you know, I’m working out a ton trying to meet my goals. But now I’m thinking that might be too much. And so by getting backing up to like, Oh, hold on, let’s figure out why you’re not making a lot of progesterone. That’s where we ultimately want to start.

Cady Kuhlman 21:59
Okay, that’s wonderful. And so tell me like diet, how that plays into the role of making more progesterone or healthy fats, omega threes? Is there any we get asked all the time? Is there a precursor to progesterone? Is there something I’m lacking? Is there, you know, is thyroid not working optimally to then have that downstream effects? So maybe go into that? Yes. And

Dr. Carrie Jones 22:19
the answer is yes to all of it. If you have hyper or hypothyroidism, so if you have been told you have hypothyroidism, Hashimotos, or the opposite, great Graves disease, because your thyroid plays a major role in your ovaries, their best friends, it absolutely will have an influence. So especially I see it more and it’s more common when you have a slower thyroid hypothyroid, then it tends to slow down or affect your menstrual cycle as well. So you may find your cycles irregular, you may find you don’t ovulate, you may find you may find your periods are heavy, because you have all this estrogen, but no progesterone to calm it down. So absolutely getting thyroid testing before. Somebody just says, oh, that’s me. I’m gonna go and you know, jump on the first thyroid supplement that I can find get testing first, let’s see what we’re up against. But then when it comes to food, absolutely. So I mentioned, like under eating before, and again, remember, now under eating can be a few different things it can be you have a super busy life meeting start at 8am You’re trying to get your kids ready by 7am. And you don’t even stop till five. I mean, I have friends who don’t intentionally not eat in their way. They just don’t have the time and haven’t built it yet. That’s

Cady Kuhlman 23:32
so cool. So in our store, that’s actually almost every woman that comes in even overweight or any they’ll they’ll look at me and they’re like, you would think I eat a lot. But I don’t and that’s actually the common story is under eating not overeating. Yes, yeah,

Dr. Carrie Jones 23:45
yeah. And you can be extreme you can have an actual disordered eating, right, where it’s more of a, you know, an eating disorders choice. No choice, what we’re familiar with. I do find in our society, sometimes it’s a mix between the two, you just don’t eat but because you have a history of disordered eating, it’s maybe easier for you or acceptable for you, just seeing that combination. Either way, it registers with the brain, lack of calories, lack of nutrients, and therefore it’s going to affect oftentimes it will affect your menstrual cycle and quality of food. You know, you you are what you eat and absorb. And so if you’re eating foods that are not nutrient dense, they’re kind of void of any kind of vitamins, minerals, nutrients or anything. That’s not going to be that helpful because your entire body from head to toe works on vitamins, nutrients, healthy fats, you know, minerals, etc. Those are the cofactors that make your body go round. Those are the cofactors that help you get from point A to point B, and he mentioned fat so your cells, all of your cells have a lining around them called lipid bilayer lipid, because phospho lipids healthy fat, we want our cells to be very fluid, and able to receive hormones or what we call fat soluble vitamins like vitamin A, or E, or hot fat soluble hormones like estradiol, progesterone, testosterone. But if you have stiff cells, think of like trying to get into an old house with an old door and you’re trying to like push the stupid door open. And it just really hard versus a nice shirt, you know, healthy door that’s been greased, the door just opens, it’s the same in your cell. And so if you evaluate the types of fats that you’re eating, if you’re doing a lot of fried foods, trans fats, as opposed to your omega threes, or even like your olive oils, you know, some of those, then it will make a difference. Yes, but I will tell you, because you did ask the backbone of our all our, our reproductive steroid hormones, which is what we’re talking about is cholesterol. So you do have to eat enough of those, you know, fats, if you have low cholesterol, it can cause a problem potentially, with hormone production.

Cady Kuhlman 26:10
Thank you for throwing that. And because that’s one of the things that people oftentimes hear, Oh, we don’t want high cholesterol. So our society thinks, Okay, then sometimes the opposite means better. And so low does not mean better. You know, cholesterol is, as you mentioned, is an antioxidant for the brain an antioxidant for making our sex hormones and making us feel good within our own brains. And so I’m not a fan of driving cholesterol too low. So I’m happy that you mentioned that. So tell me for listeners, like, what would be a what blood tests would you suggest? Or would you suggest, you know, testing ovulation? Would you suggest testing multiple times a month? Because that is one of the things I think women get confused on they go in, and maybe they get a lab drawn one time of the month? And I’ll ask them, okay, so where were you at in your phase? Well, I don’t know. You know, they say and I’m like, oh, that we that’s not going to be very conclusive and me helping you see, where were you in your roller coaster? Because there are times you should be lower times you should be higher. And I need to know where you’re at in your cycle. So what would your advice be in testing?

Dr. Carrie Jones 27:10
Yes. And this is so relatable to so many women. And they don’t know I had a really good friend a couple years ago, say to me, my progesterone is near zero. I mean, it was like under one 0.5 or something. And she said, My doctor wants me to go on progesterone. And I said, Well, where were you in your cycle? And she said, I don’t know. It was like, Tuesday at three o’clock in the lab. Yeah. And it turned out she was on her period. And I said, it’s supposed to be that low. That’s normally when it’s slow. So I’m so glad you said that. When we do estrogen, estradiol is what we’re looking at estradiol and progesterone testing, we tend to look in the luteal phase we want your blood draw to be about five to seven days after ovulation. If you don’t know if you ovulate, there’s a couple things you can do. One, you can do ovulation predictor kits, whether you’re trying to get pregnant or not. We’re just using it for you know science purposes. You their little urine strips you buy at the grocery store or pharmacy or online, and you pee on them on the morning and when it’s positive, it means you’re probably about to ovulate. So they’re called LH strips are ovulation predictor strips, and they’re measuring a hormone called LH. The higher Lh is, you’re pretty close, you’re probably going to ovulate soon. Once that’s positive, if you if you do the strips, then five to seven days later, plan out your blood draw or whatever test you’re doing. Now, there are other ways if you notice that your mucus is changing, it’s going it’s shows up and becomes much more stretchy. Some women feel ovulation, they’ll say, oh my gosh, in the middle of my cycle I get like little twinges in the pelvic area. I’ll get a little ache. Let me know that I ovulated. Around ovulation, our testosterone bumps up a little bit. Often. Not always. So some women will go ooh, yeah, I I feel a little saucy. Or at that time I feel you know, a little sexier. I’m ready for some action at that time. And like well, probably gonna be late soon. It’s designed and so that’s helpful to know. So five to seven days after ovulation is I ideal when we’re checking those two markers? Yeah, no, the other markers. Let’s say you’re like, I should probably check my thyroid. And it’s been a while since I’ve checked iron or like I’ve never had my vitamin D just do it all at the same time. Just do it all at the same time to be consistent. And it’s that way it’s only one blood draw, which is great.

Cady Kuhlman 29:31
I love that that was so helpful. So helpful. So let’s just dive into now that we’re getting to this part some remedies. So let’s dive into some of your favorite remedies, some by new athletics, some in general that you would just like to talk about because I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, just as a reminder that you know one of the the biggest positions in your life now is working with new ethics which is a very, very, very scientific based formulation company, herbal company and neutral Ain’t company and we’re honored to have it on our shelves at our store. And it’s growing and sales. And I think it’s doing so for good reason. It’s a great company. So let’s hop into some remedies now.

Dr. Carrie Jones 30:10
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the big first ones, I always make sure that people have is just, you know, like quality multivitamin quality B vitamin or a supplement in it that has those bees, vitamin B, six, in particular, B six, and B five, are really helpful in women’s health. And so the new ethics product called menstrual ease, which I’ll talk about in a second, has that in the hair in there. But let me talk about why. So when you need to make hormones when you’re making brain hormones, when you’re processing hormones, vitamin B six plays a major role. And so we often find that women don’t get enough in their body or they can’t absorb it very well. Maybe they’re struggling with gas or bloating or constipation, things in the GI tract. And they’re just know that maybe they’re eating but they’re just absorbing well. So we need to, we need to add in a little extra to help them through everything they’re going through. And B six also helps us make GABA GABA is our calming neurotransmitter in our brain. And so if we don’t feel calm, adding a little extra V six may help that process happen. Vitamin B five, along with vitamin C, are really helpful for our adrenal glands. And so our adrenal glands manage our stress. And as we get close to our period, and we’re feeling pmse stress hits us harder than our male counterparts. They, their testosterone is pretty much the same all the time, they’re, you know, they wake up in the morning, it’s just dosterone, ideally, is high, and then it goes down. And it’s the same day after day after day after day, ideally, whereas we shift a little bit every day over 28 days, and then we start over. So when we are feeling stress, as we get closer that to our periods, we become more sensitive to it right, like what we could have handled last week this week ready to, you know, go crazy. And so adding in that vitamin B five and the vitamin C can be a real game changer for a lot of people. And then when we talk about herbs, my favorite favorite herb is called chaste tree, or vytex by Tex, Agnes cactus, and new ethics has a liposomal Chase tree all by itself, or they have included it in the menstrual ease, which is their PMS product. Chase tree essentially is an herb that helps work at the brain level. And so what it does predominantly, it does a couple things. I call it like an adaptogen for the ovaries. So we know about adaptogens with stress, I’m sure a lot of people have heard of ashwagandha Rhodiola ginseng, those are adaptogens for the adrenal glands. The Chase tree is more an adaptogen for the ovary so it helps improve brain signaling down to the ovaries to really support the progesterone production but it can also help support proper estrogen production as well. It also can lower prolactin. So prolactin we think about with our breastfeeding hormone, it’s our pro lactation hormone. But um, you can have even like if you have hypothyroidism, you’re more prone to slightly elevated levels of prolactin high stress, lot lack of or loss of vitamin B six. All those cause prolactin to go up a little bit. Worst case scenario there are tumors that can produce prolactin, but let’s say best case scenario, it’s B six issues or thyroid or stress. What is prolactin? Do when it’s mildly elevated? Well, the body goes, What am I doing? Am I breastfeeding? Am I not breastfeeding? I don’t know. I’m just going to throw everything off. And that’s how we feel leading up to our cycle. So Chase streak can help dial that back in, get that back to where it needs to be while supporting progesterone and estrogen. And so Okay, adding in super nutrients. Oh, go ahead.

Cady Kuhlman 33:55
How would us how would someone take that? Would it be all month long? Or would they just want to take it when they feel the symptoms explain that.

Dr. Carrie Jones 34:01
So ideally, Chase tree is done all month long. So I stack so if somebody says to me, I’m having low progesterone, I don’t ovulate, I have terrible PMS, we do Chase tree all month long along with nutrients. But as we get close up to the PMs time, then I use the new ethics menstrual ease because it also has a number of other products in it that support lowering inflammation, reducing cramps, reducing swelling, you know all the things that kind of you complain of in a certain timeframe as opposed to maybe all 28 days. And so we can stack the products. Now some women really only need at least that PMS time some women are like man, I feel great three weeks, so the other month it’s that fourth week that sucks. I’m like Okay, then let’s just do, let’s just do that the you know, the extra B vitamins and menstrual ease, you know, maybe some omegas get that healthy fat in there in that PMS timeframe. But remember, it’s a whole cycle and the cycle starts day one right so whatever you do when your lifestyle They’ll changes your diet, your exercise, your basic nutrition, your basic supplements, you do want to do those kind of every day and support the cycle every day.

Cady Kuhlman 35:09
Okay, that’s so helpful and then tell just a little bit more what’s in the menstrual ease product just so we can know some of those great ingredients and how they’re kind of working.

Dr. Carrie Jones 35:17
Yeah, so it does have vitamin B five, it has vitamin C, it does have vitamin B six, it does have a little bit of Chase tree. It has other support, it has a traditionally used Chinese medicine mushroom called PORIA, which is helpful for lowering inflammation, reducing cramps and studied even in like menstrual cramps. It has ginger in it ginger, believe it or not, is what we call, like the spice of the uterus, it’s warming, it’s helpful for reducing inflammation in there, it’s helpful for reducing cramps in there, it’s got a little bit of licorice in there, licorice helps us with harmonizing hormones, helping with stress management. And again, all of these are a little bit that play well together, is opposed to like one, you know, like 1000 milligrams, it’s just gonna hit you over the head. It’s, it’s enough that as a as a, as a group, as a group, a combination product that you can take it leading up to your cycle. And it is a great in the moment, it’s a great band aid to cover all the bases that you’re feeling

Cady Kuhlman 36:22
wonderful. Okay. And then not to throw such a loaded question here kind of as at the end as we’re wrapping up, but if a if a female was on birth control pills, and it was just to help their PMS issues, it wasn’t for, say birth control reasons or other reasons, but they were told to get on this birth control. Do you see that as helpful generally? Or what is your advice when women come to you on that? And I know that you know, again, yes, it could go they could go back to their traditional obese and have this conversation but like, just what are your thoughts into this a little bit more?

Dr. Carrie Jones 36:54
So I will say I’m glad we have the birth control pill. I’m glad we have an option for birth control pill for women. When it comes to PMS, though. It is not my first line therapy because I feel I have I feel I have just like you I’ve so many other options. If they’re not using the birth control pill for true birth control or something else severe where I need it in the moment. Like my severe endometriosis patients. Yeah, severe pain like things where I’m like, wow, we need a band aid. We need it right now. That’s the birth control pill. It is a heavy hitting baseball bat. Yeah. But if somebody says, I’m like, Well, why are you on the pill? And they’re like, I just had PMS. Like, Oh, I feel like there’s such better options. And I have so many women in my social media comments whose her like, gosh, I just made easy changes. Nothing super expensive. Nothing super crazy. I evaluated the chemicals in my life, which we touched on, I evaluated how I’m sleeping, because I wasn’t I evaluated the stress in my life, you know, I made some dietary improvements added in some nutrients, and my PMS got exponentially better. And they didn’t have the side effects of the birth control pill. Because while I’m not against the birth control pill, in theory, it has a host of side effects. Yeah. And I was just talking to an OBGYN yesterday. And she and I were saying how the birth control pill depletes so many nutrients. And the list is very long. It’s like an multivitamins worth of nutrients that were controlled depletes

Cady Kuhlman 38:29
and especially B vitamins, which you were speaking about are so vital for the mental health. Yeah, all the pretty

Dr. Carrie Jones 38:33
much all of them. I have pharmacy friends. And I’m like, why don’t you recommend a quality multivitamin when you hand out the birth control pill and they’re like, it’s not standard practice. I know it the warning label is there that it depletes you know a lot of nutrients. But we it’s not standard practice to go, hey, you know, you should probably get a multivitamin. So if somebody’s listening to this, and they’re like, oh, gosh, I have been on the birth control pill for five years or 10 years. Be aware, you should probably come talk to Katie and get a quality multivitamin, because definitely, you are probably really depleted in it. And that alone might make a huge difference in any side effects that you’re feeling. Because when you deplete your B vitamins, when you deplete your minerals, it just sort of like falls apart. You need those things to make your body go round.

Cady Kuhlman 39:22
You do you do and so for the women listening, what what timeline, do you try to give it for women because I have some that that want that, you know, effect within a week or two weeks. And I always try to tell them like we’re working kind of cycle at a time. So we’ve got to get everything in for a good 30 days. And then we’re looking for the future cycles. So we’re looking at a cycle or two down the road. So just explain kind of your timeline with when you’re working on this. Yeah.

Dr. Carrie Jones 39:47
Are you ready? It’s three months at a minimum. Yeah, I thought so. Here’s why I can give you the science why this might be helpful for everyone listening. When you you have one follicle that you only release unless you’re having twins or triple There’s only really one follicle one egg releases a month. So it’s like the Grand Queen follicle and she has to get, she has to grow and get groomed and you know chosen and the whole thing. But it takes three months for your body to start recruiting, what we call pre antral follicles and grow them up into one chosen queen. Wow. So that means I need to affect the health of the follicles three months ago, because it the queen who was chosen for this month, she’s already been through everything you’ve been through, she’s already been through your exercise plan, your diet, your chemicals, your vices, you know, your stress your travel, like, we can do the best we can. And we are, but remember it a three month minimum, I want those baby follicles pulled up into queendom. And really healthy. Gotcha. That’s pretty much a minimum.

Cady Kuhlman 40:54
Okay, thank you. I think that’ll help people that are listening to know not to give up on their changes so soon. And then it’s important to stick with it and really reassess after those 90 days. So yeah, this was wonderful I so

Dr. Carrie Jones 41:07
I will say this last factoid before we wrap up, but your ovaries are sisters, not twins. Now I realized twins are sisters. But it’s also possible that righty and lefty don’t do the same thing every month. So you may you may be listening to this in August and have one type of cycle. And in September, you have a different type of cycle. And then you may flip back and forth your right then left and right and left might go or you may have a dominant ovary. So you may feel the same symptoms three or four months in a row and then you have a rogue period and you’re like where did this room period? Or why do I get this migraine but only a couple times a year? Absolutely. It could be outside forces, diet, lifestyle, etc. Where it could be your ovaries have shifted to the other side. So I have advised women all the time, track your symptoms so you can get a really good idea. Do your symptoms stay consistent month by month do they flip back and forth? Do they have a pattern three months of good one month a bad three months of bad one month of good so well while I say it does take three months to recruit and build up and health of an ovary you have to ovaries and so we do it is going to take you longer than a week to make profound changes total I wish it was faster I will totally give everyone the easy button if I could or the magic supplement if I had a sure magic fix it all supplement you and I would not hold back we would just give it we handed out like candy.

Cady Kuhlman 42:36
We weren’t expressions I know how it feels to have bad PMS but I also can be on the other side to know that holding on through those three months is worth it because you can get to the other side and feel so great. So thank you so much Dr. Kerry. This was so wonderful. I so enjoyed our time and I hope our listeners got a lot out of this I’m my passion is always to spread more help for women and get this across the country because I think we all deserve to live our absolute best feeling lives and that as possible. And so thank you for your time and I hope you enjoyed it as well.

Dr. Carrie Jones 43:05
My gosh. Well thank you so much for having me.