Histamine Intolerance and DAO
Have you ever had gut trouble where the symptoms were unexplainable? Histamines might be to blame.
Many of the foods we eat contain varying amounts of histamines or may actually trigger the release of histamines within our gut. This could result in headaches or migraines, fatigue, nausea, cramping, high blood pressure, or even irregular heartbeat among others. Our body naturally regulates histamines through an enzyme called DAO (diamine oxidase). It's responsible for breaking down histamines within our gut, but age, gastrointestinal disorders, and even some medications can either block or decrease DAO production. Thankfully there are now effective supplements that can help replenish our DAO levels and bring back balance to our histamine levels.
Helmut Schmutz has worked in the pharmaceutical industry for more than three decades. As the founder of Sciotec, A.S. in Austria (now a division of STADA GmbH), he developed the original, patented DAO formulation. His insight and experience continue to drive innovation at Omne Diem.
Some Topics We Discuss:
- 4:43 - What is a histamine and histamine intolerance?
- 8:19 - What are some of the symptoms associated with histamine intolerance?
- 9:40 - What are some of the foods that contain or produce histamines?
- 12:10 - Histamines aren't the bad guy.
- 14:23 - How DAO supplements work to provide immediate relief.
- 17:02 - How long do the effects of supplementation last?
- 20:30 - Is this a vegetarian product?
- 25:59 - At what age should someone start considering a DAO supplement?
Helmut Schmutz 0:00
We are not talking about intolerant at that histamine from food. And we only talk about this thing histamine from food is something bad? No, not at all. In fact, histamine in food is a natural substance that occurs in many, many, many forms. In most cases, for example, cheese, histamine is the flavor pure flavor carrier. Which means if you take out the histamine from cheese, which you could do in a laboratory, we did that actually, we tried that. So you take it out, it still looks like cheese, but if you taste it, it tastes like cardboard paper, because any any kind of taste is gone. So in most cases, this histamine is actually a very important part of what the problem is, is that the person who is suffering from histamine intolerance is actually suffering from an enzyme deficiency.
Brian Strickland 0:54
You're listening to the nutrition world podcast, a show about navigating the intricacies of holistic wellness. We're a natural health food store located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we believe that optimal health and peak performance should be accessible to everyone. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. My name is Brian Strickland on the producer of the show. In On today's episode, we're speaking with a gentleman from Austria and his name is helmet schmutz helmet is the formulator of a product called D EO. And if you're not familiar with Dao, you're probably not alone. But it is specifically targeted at histamines within the gut. If you didn't know there are foods that contain histamine, some that are higher than others. And there are foods that can actually liberate histamines when we eat them. So home, it really just wants to walk us through what this means for people and if it's left unchecked, how it can result in a variety of different systems. So we have a lot of ground to cover. This is a really interesting conversation on a relatively new product. But we hope that you enjoy this conversation between Ed and helmet.
Ed Jones 1:59
Today, I am so intrigued by the upcoming conversation. This is going to be unlike almost anything that I've actually ever had an experience with, because and I'm going to ramble a couple minutes here. You know, I've heard for almost 43 years now, dozens of people a day because we I deal with a lot of clients, a lot of people who are struggle with their health. And I've heard everything I don't think there's there's a story I have not heard. But there's a category of people who are suffering in this country that actually don't need to be suffering. And it has to do with histamines and a type of allergy histamine reaction, that doesn't cause the body to have a reaction like an IGE reaction, but just causes terrible symptoms. And, you know, I was thinking just minutes before I started this podcast. I've watched medicine, I've watched nutrition, I've watched people for four plus decades. In my whole life, there's only been and maybe somebody will call me out on this one single drug that has been invented that cured anything and that was hepatitis C, that drug can cure people. Everything else has been invented is tweaking the normal system of managing helping people feel better. There's not a real, there's no super life changing pills that came out, I guess I will say are treatments. But I can tell you today is going to be potentially life changing. Because when I started learning about this whole conversation of histamines, and what can we do about it beyond just staying away from the foods, we have an option that is so powerful, and so dramatic and so quick that I'm just continued to be excited about this. So today, we're probably talking to the person the furthest distance away we've ever done on a podcast. And it's helmets much from Austria welcome helmet to nutrition worlds podcast.
Helmut Schmutz 3:57
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to meet you today. Thank you very much.
Ed Jones 4:01
I have talked to him once or twice before and I'm just supremely impressed. And and what we're going to learn today is what is this histamine conversation? Why is it important to address and what can we do about it because helmet has more experienced than any person in the world? He started looking into this 20 years ago about why do we have his domain over abundance? What can we do about it? And so helmet I guess let's start because I always tend to assume people know these things more big just because I studied all day long than anybody else does. What is his domain and why should we even be wanting to learn about this?
Helmut Schmutz 4:43
Thank you for the introduction. I'm really flattered. I wouldn't call myself the only person who knows but I've got some experience now after those 20 years. When we first started 20 years ago, my scientific team and myself we just tried to find out whether there is a second A possibility besides allergies, everybody knows about allergies. Everybody knows the picky thing with IGE reaction, you react to histamine outburst in your body, which causes all the symptoms that we all know. Besides this, there was a group of persons that had those symptoms, but simply could not be tested it positive. So they went to the geologist, they went through the whole the full screen, the electrologist, did not find anything. So they were really disappointed went home and thought, okay, maybe I've got some other problem, but nobody knows about it. So we, we tried to do and it took us really quite some time to make the big difference. Nowadays, we can say, we talk about something actually very simple. If we talk about histamine intolerance, we are not talking about intolerance at that histamine from food. And we only talk about this thing histamine from food is something bad. No, not at all. In fact, histamine in food is a natural substance that occurs in many, many, many forms. In most cases, for example, cheese, histamine is the flavor care flavor carrier, which means if you take out the histamine from cheese, which you could do in a laboratory, we did that actually, we tried that. So you take it out, it still looks like cheese, but if you taste it, it tastes like cardboard paper, because any any kind of taste is gone. So in most cases, this this histamine is actually a very important part of what the problem is, is that the person who is suffering from histamine intolerance is actually suffering from an enzyme deficiency. To digest histamine in our body, we naturally produce a certain enzyme, which is called diamine oxidase or in short Dao. And this Dao is produced in our small intestine as a natural barrier and natural shield against an overload of histamine from food. So normally, if you have an abnormal amount of the O in your body, in your small intestine, you can eat histamine, which rich food without any problem, because the histamine that comes down there, is naturally digested and split up. So you don't have any problem with that.
Ed Jones 7:16
That is so interesting. And again, the analogy that I've speak probably too much people may get tired of it is that of an orchestra. And I feel so connected to that theory that our human body is like a massive orchestra. So we imagine all these musicians and instruments, and as long as everything's tuned up and playing in tune, you're going to produce, most likely beautiful music. But when one or more of those instruments or musicians completely out of tune, the rest of them can't really balance it because it's rippling effect on that music. Well, this is what happens on so many systems of our body, we have substances like a histamine, or 1000 substances that in the right amount is producing the optimal health music. But if it's too high or too low, then it sends these ripple effects that out, what are some of the effects people will feel if they one don't have enough da o to help to manage histamine and their histamine levels rise too high? What are the most common symptoms?
Helmut Schmutz 8:19
Actually, this was the biggest challenge in the beginning. Because those symptoms can be really widespread. We start from headache down to diarrhea down to bloating down to itching, some, some people even get skin rashes from from histamine. So we talk about a whole range of symptoms that can occur if you have this problem.
Ed Jones 8:45
Well, that and as anyone who is a counselor, or healthcare person or physician has a category of clients and patients that they hear all these types of complaints about, and they actually may test and try and medications or they tried different dietary changes. But there's still a big gap in regard to some conversations. And I think one of the biggest ones is on this histamine. And the wonderful thing that we're going to talk about is the remedy of choice, which is totally natural. We're not treating medical conditions, but we're helping to manage health can not only give you a clue, is this your true issue or not? And if it is, it's an easy fix. It's just an easy fix. Now, I do want to say real quickly, what are some of the foods other than cheese that might produce a pretty good hefty load of histamines. I know red wine is one, isn't it?
Helmut Schmutz 9:40
Exactly. That's absolutely true. And with the red wine again, I can give you a very interesting example. We tested several red wines from the same vineyard from different years and we found out that same when you had the same wine the same grape produced in one year, a high amount of histamine next year, almost none real So, and that's actually the tricky thing about it. And that's the tricky thing. Also, with the diet, I always recommend diet is the first thing you really could do about the histamine is leave out those foods that you can take. It's always easily said because if you have to take up tomatoes, if you have to take out cheese if you have to take a rasp or is beans, chocolate sausages and showy, I mean sauerkraut can be left out easily. Avocado, banana enemas, pineapple walnut, tomato, plant, avocado. So we talked about a whole list of foods. And the tricky thing is, there is no marking on the fruit that tells you okay, there is a system and internal histamine is actually coming out of fermentation processes. So the more the food is fermented, or let's say the other way around, the less fresh the food is, the higher the probability that there is histamine in it. It's, as I said, it's a natural substance that comes from any kind of fermentation processing food. That's why I can quote one specific food, which is the Thai fish sauce. I mean, if you ever went for Thai food they have there is one special ingredient in there. And it's in almost any kind of Thai food. And this is fish sauce. This fish sauce, which is tasting wonderfully, it smells terrible. Why does it smell so terrible, because it's actually made from rotten fish. And so I always bring this as an example, if you want to kill somebody with a histamine intolerance, you really give him some fish sauce from Thailand, because that's an amount of histamine, you cannot imagine if it's 1000 fold of the normal amount, which is absolutely natural, because if you let fish rot, and then process it into some source, which doesn't harm you at all, if you are healthy, it's really good. And I've had it many, many times in my life, I don't want to be misunderstood is nothing dangerous. But if you have a problem on this side, that is really a trigger. So if you want to test it, buy some Thai fish sauce.
Ed Jones 12:10
That is such an interesting story. And I know I just actually a few months ago, we did a podcast on me writing that alcohols from worst to best. And I know, part of it is my studies. Part of it is my life journey. And in regard to like red one, you know, I drink red wine, because, you know, it's been very well marketed as almost a health food, which is a joke. And so but I always for those years, couldn't really figure out why I didn't feel sick, but I didn't feel well. And I felt foggy thinking I felt a little congested. I felt a little druggie and dragged dragged out. And it was a consistent feeling. And I just, I should have had the light go off say there's something about this red one. And finally it did. And of course, I write more of the cleaner alcohols that have less of that, like tequila and a few others. But as far as people, they can journey their whole life like almost all of us and never get this connection. So what I want to talk about or ask you the question helmet at this point. In one, I want to make a point that I think you've already made. histamines are not a bad guy. They are important for some functions of our body. This isn't like traditional medicine seems to always put things in good and bad categories. It isn't that it's it's the mismanagement of our body due to all the other reasons. And of course, some of those reasons that we can't produce Dao is roundup in food. The microbiome is messed up a lot of the drugs like Enbrel and a few and nonsterile down inflammatories and some of the problems sex all those decreased EIEIO so we're kind of doing it sometimes to ourself. But as far as this Dao, it's a supplement, it's a capsule. And when I actually experienced the first use of it, I was told you know, give it two or three days do it before each meal. And if you see dramatic changes, well you obviously need to manage your Dao better and it was and I've talked to a couple dozen people since then it is absolutely almost a black and white conclusion if you have it then you're going to know that this product is going to work so explain this da o product
Helmut Schmutz 14:23
you asked me right you You made a big big splash already. I mean, when we when we originally found out the problem of histamine intolerance we went the next step and said okay, now we know the problem, which is this enzyme deficiency, how can we solve is a solution and we wanted to come up with a very easy solution because we talked about the patient group that has a lot of digestive problems already so we did not want to come up you know, with those, you know, Moon reacting, whatever kind of supplements that have chemical pathway have to meet two key launches, just to be understood. We wanted to have something really simple. So we tried to find the oil and and we originally found it is, the oil that we are using today is from a natural source, it's absolutely clean, there is nothing added to it, it's just as it is, it's like the do we are producing in our body today. The only thing is and that that's what made it really difficult in the beginning to bring it into a product was that this timing oxidase, this enzyme is very, very sensitive to all kinds of, let's say surrounding mechanisms like heat, like acidity, like although things, but we had to find a very specific formulation for it. And one of it is the enteric coating that is absolutely necessary with the do to make it function in your body. If you don't have it enteric coated, you won't have any reaction at all, because your stomach is going to kill the enzyme, which is a natural barrier. So we found that And nowadays we can say we have a very reliable product. And as you mentioned already, that very interesting thing about our product is you have an immediate effect. So in comparison to many other supplements, which you have to take four weeks or even months to get gradually better. Here you have a product that gives you instant relief. If you take the product and you are sensitive to histamine because you're suffering from an histamine intolerance, you will not have any problem afterwards. And that's really something I'm very proud of that we really make manage to get that. The most important thing is and that is something you have to keep in mind all the time when you take do you have to take it before the food, that's a very important thing. So you can't get any relief after you had the dinner. So going out having dinner and coming home and say Oh, I forgot to do is bad. But you can't solve it by throwing in two more after it has to be in place when the food gets into the intestines. We have to take it before.
Ed Jones 17:02
So was when I was learning about it, it lasts about six hours with each dose, is that correct?
Helmut Schmutz 17:09
Correct? Absolutely correct. This is also something hit deal. And as I said it's the natural deal is being transported through the test time with the natural flow of your food. So if you look at the time span that your food takes through your body that's about that time span. And since we are we become part of the food in your intestine, so it's nothing that that is clinging on to your intestinal walls, it's just going with it. And that's very important that it moves with the food because through the whole intestinal mucosa, we try to bring down the histamine load as much as possible. And that's why we have those six hours.
Ed Jones 17:52
How just how so interesting to me, of course, I've been a lifelong detective and a seeker of these kinds of, of anything that has to do with helping optimizing health because we're in a declining state in this country. And I think the norm has become if you're normal today, you're overweight, you're anxious, you're a little depressed, you're kind of fatigued half the time, you have swellings you have, you know, you don't you snore at night, you blank, I mean, we could fill up pay. That's the norm today, that did not be the way the world was when I was born in 57. And you know, in the 60s, I remember being around families, even the 70s. But something you know, we're corrupting our own health many times not directly meant meaning to but the experiences and exposures we have are creating again, is making those musicians in that in that orchestra either go to sleep or get completely out of tune. And then that's rippling down many different levels. And of course, what happens at the very end of that path is disease. And we have a huge opportunity to sideline that disease if we can be learning what we need to do at this stage. And you know, when the yellow flags for eventually turned to red flags, we can prevent most of those. And this is one of those things also because discomfort alone was going to probably make us have less energy, more anxiety more this more than just because we're feeling puffy and we're feeling like we're swelling and then we have these multiple you've already missed it mentioned probably 12 symptoms and I'm sure there's even more from histamines. So I again, I have to repeat in 42 years of watching a lot of medical stuff and of course living in the whole world of nutrition. You're right, we do a nutritional supplement. It may take many months and maybe even a couple of years to prove that this is actually working. Because not everything do we feel directly like you know, if we raise certain levels of NAD for anti aging, you might not feel that but maybe your cells are getting younger in some ways, but that's not real easy to design or to Define, but this is I am. And I've already told a number of people who came in with these vague symptoms of I never feel well. And they kind of hit upon the swellings. And I said, You know what, just try this Dao for three days, I want you to take one pill, again, before meals, I guess if a person was eating in a modest window, they could get by with two pills one in the morning, and then hit the other one before the next two meals or before the next meal. Now, real quickly now, is this a vegetarian product?
Helmut Schmutz 20:35
I'm very open with that. It's actually made of kidney, okay. I mean, why, why is that so I can give you a very, very simple explanation for that as well. First of all, pig is very genetical very close to the human being. I mean, we all deny that, especially women, but it is it is as it is. And apart from that, pigs are nourishing, very similar to us, which means they take everything from vegetables, to meat to whatever they can get. We take much higher qualities, but still we have this mixture. So we had to find a species that is very close to that. And apart from that, I want to stress another point, the product that we are selling right now is having no systemic effect, it has only a local effect in the gut, on the food itself. This was also something that we definitely were pinpointing it at the beginning of our of our studies and experiments, because as you mentioned, already, we talked about a patient that is having problems already with this intestinal system. So and as you said, right, there's so many parameters in there that are that are really causing troubles, we did not want to interfere with these, we wanted to sue the whole situation, we wanted to calm the intestine, which is, in our opinion, one of the most important things in that connection. So our product is only working in the small intestine within that it's not absorbed, the deal that we are producing there is not absorbed into the body. So it stays there. And it keeps the whole buddy clean. This is something that we definitely wanted.
Ed Jones 22:10
Well, I did thank you for that. Because, you know, there's certain people who may choose not do it for that reason. But I feel totally confident one in the quality of the product of purity the product has no we've we've talked about that. And there are certain things that just can't be replaced from the plant kingdom because plants don't make this enzyme do they?
Helmut Schmutz 22:29
Exactly It is That's correct. There is one way of extracting the whole from plants, which comes from peas. But there's the big problem, you need tons of peas to get milligrams of the O out there. First of all, and apart from that, you have those cross allergies with peace, which is a very, very big problem actually, in many cases, if you if you extract peace, so we were definitely going for that it's much easier, it's much cleaner, all those pigs are coming from from absolutely biologic background. So we can we can trace it back to really to each peak. Each capsule can be traced back to a pig, we are fully safe. We are undergoing the full European safety regulations here which are very, very tough. We cannot escape anything and we don't want to escape anything because we we know that we are producing a product that is actually taken by the patient. And we want to keep the patient as safe as possible. We did all kinds of toxicological studies, everything has been done. So we are talking about a product that is really having a very, very high scientific background. There were scientific studies made double blind crossover studies with the product, which is much more than you can expect from a classic food supplement. All that has been done within the last 20 years. And I'm really proud to say the product that you get now in the United States of America is for sure one of the safest and most effective one that you can get anywhere in the
Ed Jones 24:03
world. I love that and people I want you to know that you know the European standards are far higher than the United States. I completely have total trust in this I've looked deep enough in it because if I put my reputation on the line, it's very important to me and I'm not going to endorse something that I would have any questions about. I just am thrilled because and even though we've mentioned the symptoms, I think his domains and I think you probably would say I'm right the list the normal list may be 15 things but there's no telling what an individual can experience with too many histamines and to experiment with this product. If you have vague symptoms that nothing else has been able to modulate in any way. You've tried it every all the different diets, you've taken the supplements you've taken prescription drugs, you're still feeling this this level of not healthy. In many regards. I recommend at least do this All three day trial of Da Oh, it can't hurt you and you. I'm used you know it legally maybe we're not I don't want to say anything out of line. But this is a diagnostic by taking those three days. That's the test to see. You know, and what I'm doing is I really don't feel like I have a lot of problem with histamines unless I eat something or drink something a very strong substance. I won't drink red wine anymore. But you know, if I were going to eat chocolate, or I was going to eat, like avocados is the one food I eat very regularly. And I did not know avocados had his domains. Until I started, you started teaching me about this. So we just, I want to take them before some of those meals and I don't take them other times because Overall I'm pretty darn good. But helmet This is so think life changing for some people who've been struggling now age wise, what is the youngest that a person can consume this?
Helmut Schmutz 25:59
Naturally Speaking, we can say the older you get, the higher the probability of histamine problems. So normally, it starts around the age of 20. It also comes from the fact that until then you normally have a very, let's say, control diet. After that you start eating and drinking all kinds of things. So also the probability that you get through with higher histamine levels, desire. And so we would say yes, from 20, up to actually there's no upper limit, we see a very big group between 40 and 60, where a lot of enzymes in your body are stopped and not produced anymore. So this place together, we see cross reactions, a lot of cross reactions with lactose intolerance and fructose intolerance. Also, those two are always into players with the histamine intolerance thing. So you have you have quite a lot of fun, a lot of reasons why you can get that up. I mean, if you talk and you talked about the food already, we are not only talking about the pathogenic Emmons or histamine in food that is originally there, we also talk about so called and specific liberators of histamine, where the food itself doesn't carry any histamine like strawberries, strawberries, a very, very good example for that. Driver is almost never carry histamine with themselves. But due to the reaction in the small intestine, the intestine produces so much histamine that it could be that you can take that. So we call it a liberator of history. citric fruits fall into that category, crustaceans, X and H, white wine, H white wine also normally doesn't carry a lot of histamine. But this can cause the same reaction in your intestine by just producing too much histamine there locally. So, as you said, already, the chances that you have something with histamine are quite high. And then everything depends on whether you have enough do in your body, you know,
Ed Jones 28:09
and now we know how to determine it and what we can do about it. Last question, pregnancy and breastfeeding.
Helmut Schmutz 28:17
What I can say is, as I said before, since our product does not have any, any systemic action at all, we can we can recommend it for any of those situations. Honestly, speaking, they have there were no clinical studies done on that. But since we don't have any systemic action, I would say there is no problem at
Ed Jones 28:37
all. And logically, if we are simply trying to replace something that normally is within the system, it has a much higher level of safety. We're not taking a foreign compound. I mean, like I take Hawthorne, Berry for my heart, well, my body doesn't make Hawthorne Berry, it is an outside substance, is it safe or not safe for me, but they would It would need to be a little higher standard of of determining that for people who had risk or breastfeeding. Replacing what you already had at 20 years old is just freaking nature's common sense. So I, I feel I certainly would feel good about that. Well, helmet this has been, I think it's going to be life changing for a number of people. And you are entering a market that is modestly was all new. It's a little complex. And most people have no idea. Of course they won't. And even if they had a little idea, they don't have the full picture of how do we do this? How do we make it work? You've given that to people and my goal in life is to empower people with solid ethical information because they're not getting it from mainstream or traditional sources, because their toolbox is too small. And they're in a broken system. They're in a system that works for part of their system, and other parts with people who with chronic issues. It's simply not working. And I just think people like your heroes here you are all across the world and you've spent two decades researching something that can be life changing. And for so many people, and I just I want to thank you for all of your your ethics and your hard work because I know this doesn't come easy if people had any idea. And I don't have any idea, but I know enough to know, you have turned backflips over and over and over and had many challenges that you could have quit. And here we are talking. So thank you so much helmet for being a part of nutrition worlds podcast.
Helmut Schmutz 30:22
Welcome to fully appreciate the possibility. Thank you very much.
Ed Jones 30:26
And I love the view in the back and it makes everyone calmer and we probably will be talking to you again on another format in six months to a year. And maybe someday you can get over here to Tennessee and we would be thrilled to have you in person.
Helmut Schmutz 30:42
I'd love to I love Tennessee. I've been there twice already in a row. Definitely come back again.
Ed Jones 30:46
All right, my friend. All right. Take care. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, thank everyone for listening to our podcast. I wake up in the morning, excited to be here. And I love the fact that we are teaching people how to take care of themselves. So join us for the many, many more of these coming down the road and take care of yourself and we're here to help anytime that we can. Thank you.