Safe and Natural Men’s Hormone Therapy

The hormones that help give us that drive and zest for life begin to dip as we age. This is true for men and women, but we don’t have to settle or feel like we’re not quite ourselves. This week we’re taking a look at the hormone responsible for men’s mood, bone density, body hair, energy, and of course libido and we’re asking an expert on when it’s appropriate for men to think about testosterone therapy.


Meet Josh Porter, PA-C:

Joshua Porter serves as the Clinical Director for Optimize U Chattanooga. He has worked as a Physician Assistant for over 10 years. He has an extensive background in sports medicine, nutrition, supplementation, and athletic performance.

He is passionate about hormone and health optimization which led him to help start Optimize U Chattanooga. He and his wife Laura and their 5 children have called Chattanooga home since 2017. They love being active in a variety of sports and outdoor activities.


Some Points We Discuss:

  • 0:59 – The importance of balanced hormones as we age.
  • 5:20 – What happens when are hormone levels are low and which hormones should men consider?
  • 8:27 – Is testosterone therapy dangerous?
  • 11:57 – “Normal” testosterone levels are anything but normal.
  • 14:00 – Where health concerns surrounding testosterone therapy began.
  • 18:20 – Why testosterone enanthate is the best and not cypionate.
  • 20:53 – OptimizeU dosing to match physiology.
  • 22:48 – DHT for hair loss.
  • 27:56 – Total testosterone vs. free testosterone.

Products + Resources:

Josh Porter 0:00
But when it specifically is dealing with hormones in men, and there are several hormones, we we think about, you know, most men are going to think about testosterone, right? And by and large that one has the greatest effect on us negatively or positively. But estradiol for example, estradiol is an incredibly important hormone for both men and women, especially when it comes to aging and cardiovascular health and dementia prevention, bone health, I mean, there’s, there’s so many things that are beneficial that things like estradiol that we just take for granted or don’t or assume, Oh, that’s just for women.

Brian Strickland 0:36
You’re listening to the nutritional world podcast, a show about navigating the intricacies of holistic wellness. We’re a natural health food store located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we believe that optimal health and peak performance should be accessible to everyone.

Ed Jones 0:59
Let me tell you, there’s a focus of health that I think we all know, we all kind of respect, but then many of us don’t delve into it. It’s something I have talked about for over four decades, and it’s hormones, and hormone replacements. Today, we have Josh Porter, welcome to nutrition world podcast. Hey, thank you for having me. My take on this and I know people who listen to me know that I start rambling and but that’s hopefully helpful. In some cases, I have observed the fact that you know, nutrition as massively important as it is lifestyle and exercise. Sometimes, though, there’s a missing gap as we age. And I always say this Father Time is relatively cruel to us past the age of 40 is to 50 ish were put on this earth. I think design wise to do one single thing that’s to procreate, that is to have babies. And that’s one reason why we have far more ideal hormones in the early ages and stages of our life. And hormones are chemical messengers that actually are directing our body like an orchestra director could direct us. And I say this quite often to in consultations with women, especially, and some men talk to me about do I need hormones, and I say, I don’t think you might probably not live another extra day with or without them. It’s about quality of life. And I used to kind of dismiss it when I was younger, because obviously, mine were pretty darn good and right. And most of us are 3035, about 40 years, they start really in many people declining. And I started feeling that decline without recognizing that it actually was hormones. And despite the fact that you know, eating properly exercising and doing, you know, very aggressive nutrients, anti aging things as I do. That was still a missing link. And it had to do with, you know, stamina, sense of well being libido. Actually, not, I wouldn’t say antidepressant wise, but it it boosted the mood, right when I found ways to balance my hormones. And one of those is of course, doing testing. And we have a lab here at nutrition world and does testing, you have a lab, you actually you know, you’ve been a physician’s assistant for 12 years, you own a business optimize you, which is a clinic that is specializing in safe and effective ways to manage hormones. And today’s podcast is on the men’s version, and they will be doing part two on women’s in a very short order. And before I even let you talk, I’m gonna say one more thing, Chattanooga. And I think most towns are replete with a lot of these pop up clinics that are T clinics, and some for women, some poor man both. And I’m not always pleased with him, I don’t see that they focus on one health, you can’t do anything in regard to pharmaceuticals, I believe unless you also have some schooling and some skills in balancing that with things that will reduce any risk and help you to be healthier. And some of these clinics are simply trying to raise numbers on a piece of paper. And that to me can be disastrous. And so I learned to view through very good sources, probably a year and a half ago, and just was like, wow, this guy sounds like the real deal. And because you were already doing it. And luckily, we made a partnership. And now we are able to talk about you and you offer services to people that I 100% recommend because you’re doing it the right way. Pretty easy way to and it’s the latest and it’s not old school. So let’s talk about men’s hormones at this point. And I will say, you know a lot of what we’re going to talk about is if people, especially man have gone to the doctor, and they’re 50 and they say doc, check my hormones. Oh, you’re fine. You’re you’re normal. Don’t let anyone tell you normal is optimal, right? It is not I actually do a podcast called The holistic navigator. And I have one called Understanding blood chemistry. And if you’ll Google the holistic navigator, with the title understanding blood chemists dri it explains from a physician, friend of mine and myself talking about is disastrous to be in the normal ranges, we need to be an optimal. And we actually talk about what these optimal ranges are for health. So again, welcome to nutritional podcast. Josh, tell us about First off, what do hormones do? And we can say that for men and women, but specifically today on man,

Josh Porter 5:20
well, I think and thank you, by the way, and one of the things I’ll say, is, as far as even within our partnership that’s been beneficial to us is having people around us where we do get to treat the whole person, right. So I may be a specialist in hormone optimization. But it is very routinely that I’m recommending my patients to go talk to you or to add them or, or someone else up there at nutrition world to discuss some things, whether it’s, you know, supplements or nutrition. And so because I think it is about treating the whole person, but when it specifically is dealing with hormones, in men, and there are several hormones, we think about, you know, most men are going to think about testosterone, right? And by and large, that one has the greatest effect on us negatively or positively. But estradiol, for example, estradiol is an incredibly important hormone for both men and women, especially when it comes to aging and cardiovascular health and dementia prevention, bone health, I mean, there’s, there’s so many things that are beneficial about things like estradiol that we just take for granted or don’t or assume, Oh, that’s just for women. But when it when it pertains to testosterone, so around 35, I think you said 3540, around the age of 35, what we typically see is about a one to 2% decline in our testosterone levels annually. So it is in some ways, it is a matter of when will we be affected by that? Right? When will when will we be symptomatic. Some people are 42, some people are 62. But at some point, generally, the light bulb goes off, if you will, and says something’s wrong here. You know, my my libido is off my quality of life, what I refer to as vitality of life, you know, that just said, As a man, you kind of wake up in your 20s with this attitude of I’m gonna seize this day, I’m gonna conquer today. And we lose that. And it’s a gradual loss for a lot of men, to the point where we don’t realize it until it’s almost too late. And then, and then they see me right. But that vitality of life is something that’s very affected in men when it’s when it comes to low testosterone. And so, so those are the things that we look for, you know, energy level is a very common one. Weight gain, right? So and I see this a lot ed in that. I may have somebody who’s really dialed in nutritionally, right. So maybe they’ve seen you guys first and they’re doing all the right things. They’re hitting the gym there. But I’ll get the common complaint of I just feel like I’m given everything I’ve got, and I cannot seem to even stay at a level that I’m happy with. Right? It’s like this gradual decline, but they’re hitting the gym five days a week, you know, they’re eating clean, they’re taking their supplements. And so that frustration just kind of builds and builds and builds until they come to me and they’re like, What are we going to do here? Something’s gotta give. So that’s kind of the gist of when it comes to, you know, testosterone in particular with men of the type of symptoms that we see.

Ed Jones 8:27
And I want to talk about and thank you so much great explanation. And I think men who are who the lights starting to go off can resonate with exactly what you said, because it is a slow process. You don’t wake up one morning with low low tea, right? Or terribly imbalanced estrogen or something. But once you kind of think about it, now many people will go their regular dog not throwing them under the bus. But the thing is, there’s many of those are old school and they still think testosterone is dangerous and always going to cause more prostate cancer. Well, actually, we’re now looking at studies that say, low testosterone could be aggravating that whole gland. Now we’ll say and you can certainly clarify this if a person has full blown prostate cancer, they probably won’t they will do different things. Absolutely. But as far as blood clotting those things those two issues, a lot of old schoolers are going to say grunt do not do this, this is harmful. Well guess what? Not having an optimized health to me is harmful. Because you know, I’m not here to live a ton of extra years. In fact, I say this often on my podcast, I’m not really sure I’m gonna live a lot longer than normal. But what I know for a fact is the quality of my life is already 65 I’ve lived extremely good quality of life, and and just throw something else out here. One thing that causes low testosterone is not sleeping. Correct. And so I’m a huge fan of helping to address people with sleep. I have a sleep, ebook on nutrition You type in Sleepy book and it has all the steps that I have used in my chronic Insomniac life. The only thing not in there is delta nine which was Sell now, which has helped me very much. But Lack of sleep can really do that a bad marriage can do it a bad relationship, terrible stress, missing too many meals, there’s many things that can negate this. Using things in the environment that are anti testosterone that are like plastic estrogens. Those will also do that now, though. So these are parts of this this conversation that as much as you do they, you still have to kind of think about these other things, you’re drinking water bottles, bottles of water all day long, this probably isn’t set in a warehouse and, and with 100 degree temperature, you’re getting some freakin imbalanced phytochemicals in there that are awful. So back to the main topic here. What I love about you Josh is the old school is, of course I’ve been in a gym my whole life. There’s, you know, bodybuilders do different. We’re not talking about bodybuilding hormones, we’re talking about optimizing which you could be an athlete and optimize, there are people who abused this, there’s no doubt usually it’s black market blank, we’re not talking about it, we’re talking about things that’s going to help you live your life in so many ways with minimal risk, because you know how to minimize that risk. And also, the administration you do is different than anyone else who’s someone who’s listening who said, Oh, I’m already doing it, don’t just think that the might, you might be better at doing it a different way. And when you explain to me how you did this, with actually smaller needles, right, so that it’s far less discomfort, in fact, almost no discomfort at all. And the other thing you’re doing, Josh, and I know, I’m way ahead of the game, because I’m talking for you is, to me, hormones should not be a roller coaster, up and down, up and down, up and down. And that’s what’s happening in many of these clinics, and even people who are normal, or healthcare professionals who say, Okay, I’ll give you a prescription for testosterone sippy at night, here’s just some needles and do it once a week, you have got a system. And I love your system of keeping it very balanced, right, making it very easy. And everything is under one package. So everything they when they come to you everything’s here, and we take care of it all. So tell me

Josh Porter 11:57
Well, and so so I think, a lot to unpack there. But one thing I’ll say, let’s talk about normals not often, yes. Right. So when you look at the idea of you know, I’m within normal range, well, what is that range? That range is generally an average of old sick patients, right? So why would I want to be on the low end of an old sick patient population, I want to be on the upper end of that population of people or add an ad, you know, at least a comparison of a 40 year old if I’m 55. Right. And so I think that is something we have to take into account. Now, here’s the other thing that’s interesting, I think to 2007, maybe even a little later, they actually prior to 2007, you did not have to have a lab number to treat low testosterone. But the FDA came in said no, you’ve got to have, you know, two separate tests below the level 300 has to be measured at 8am in the morning, which is when it’s at its lowest in an effort to prevent the the ability for prescribers to give out testosterone. So it was in you can make the case there is in an effort to lessen costs on Medicare and things of that nature, right with the patient population. So when you when you factor those things in, and then you realize, in some ways your primary care providers are, they’re handcuffed, right, they if they’ve got this one little narrow box of where they can use it, then they can’t really get outside of that box with insurance. So one of the things that we do that kind of sets ourselves apart to your point is we don’t use we don’t deal with insurance. We do except some health savings accounts and things like that. But we offer a a monthly concierge service that encompasses your follow ups, your labs, your medical supplies, and your medications. And so it is just a really easy, simple and patients love it. I mean, patients love the idea of lists, I don’t have to worry about getting my meds, they get sent to my house, when they need supplies, they come to our office and pick it up. So that part is is great. When it comes to you know the issues of blood clots or prostate cancer. 75 years ago, there was a physician Dr. Huggins who did a study on prostate cancer with three participants, two of which did not complete the study. But out of that study, is where we had this idea that testosterone was like pouring gasoline on a prostate cancer that long ago that last word came from and it stayed like that, up until this guy Dr. Abraham Morgentaler out of Harvard, really kind of became invested in the SEC urologist and but in men’s health with testosterone and hormone replacement. So he started looking at this and he developed what’s called the saturation model based off of all the evidence and so what that says is, Can testosterone enlarge a man’s prostate or even for or could if someone has a prostate cancer? Could it accelerate the growth? Well, all the data shows that it’s very rare. So if a man’s testosterone levels below 200, which is incredibly low, I mean, it generally is never that low. But if it is, and they had a true prostate cancer, there is a level of growth that could occur and that prostate cancer with testosterone, anything above 300, it never changes, right? So if you’ve got an undiagnosed prostate cancer that you did not know, and someone started you and price on testosterone, it would not worsen your prostate cancer. Does that make sense? So so there is a so So out of that he developed and realize like, there’s because we have androgen receptors on our prostate. And so it’s, it’s kind of like a shriveled up piece of fruit, that until you add a little bit of, you know, substance to it, it grows to a level of full saturation. So that’s, that would be the the deal with prostate and so. So all the evidence to your point that shows the lower man’s testosterone level, the higher the risk of prostate cancer. And as some of that makes sense, right? The older we get, the higher the risk, we have a prostate cancer. So it’s an association because the older we get, the lower testosterone level is going to be

the same thing with cardiovascular disease. So the studies in 2013 2014, that came out that said, don’t prescribe testosterone, it’s going to cause a blood clot. Well, they were poorly designed studies. There were two retrospective observational studies that were really looked back studies on insurance database. And as a result, 29 medical societies actually wrote to the journal and said, You should redact this statement, this article like this is not this is not legit, which they did not the FDA then went on to put a blackbox warning on it. But again, all the research has shown that if you want to if you want to allow a man to have, or even a female to have a cardiovascular event, let their testosterone level below, right, so the association is cardiovascular risk and mortality is high. When your testosterone levels low, not elevating.

Ed Jones 17:10
I love it. And you know, I use, I used to always say this a lot. I believe in research, there’s no doubt I think we honest research, right one that’s bought and paid for research. I mean, that’s where all this, you know, with the COVID Follow the science, if you only follow the honest science, you can’t follow the dishonest science and the British Medical Journal just a few months ago said that 70 tubers, I think now 51% Of all editors of medical journals are paid substantial funds. Well, if that’s the person that’s choosing what goes into the journals, they can’t be objective, they can’t. But again, I go back to this word that I used to use a lot is ancient wisdom, I think, yes, science is so important. I think having a type of intuition. Wisdom is also if we had that wisdom, you had to think of two things. If testosterone is going to be harmful to the heart and the prostate. Why do not 22 year olds have heart attacks and prostate cancer? Nature? Put it in there for a very good reason? And if we do it correctly, then I think that ancient wisdom by itself says we’re going to benefit from this. Now one thing you do, which is again, different is the administration of this testosterone tell listeners how you do it differently.

Josh Porter 18:20
Yeah, so so we use testosterone enanthate. And not to get lost in the weeds. But you’ve got different types of esters, and those are carrying molecules that allow the testosterone to be absorbed. Right. So you’ve got a Nantais, cypionate, propria, Nate undecanoate, eight, all those are different molecules, and they have different half lives. Majority of people in the United States use cypionate. It’s incredibly cheap. And it’s, it’s effective is but the question is, is it the best, right? And so in answer, it’s a little bit of a pure substance, it’s a it’s a little bit more costly. It’s actually the most commonly prescribed in the world. But we use an anti eight primarily for one reason is that you can do it subcutaneously and get great levels. It has a greater effect on lean muscle mass, and it has an less negative effect on blood pressure, so that you’re getting a lot of positives and less negatives. And so that’s and again, you can tolerate and if anyone’s ever done an intramuscular injection with an inch inch and a half needle. I mean it’s it’s it’s not uncommon for those those patients to you know, say man, I couldn’t walk for two days. I put that in the wrong spot. And here you’re doing it in the flank or in the you know, the love handle or even in the the abdomen. Tiny little insulin size needle and patients tolerate it great.

Ed Jones 19:36
So yes, what I love about us partnering with people who are on the cutting edge. There are so few people who write a prescription for Ananth aid and they all right cypionate Well, it’s old school. I don’t mind people not really wanting to learn. You just came back from Utah. You’re constantly studying with with clinics and with organizations. That’s how you stay above and keep up with everything. And luckily You know, I certainly try to do the same thing with nutrition. These are the people we need as our team members, we don’t need those who are still falling back in the 1980s. And the 90s kind of myths that they get plugged into their head. And yes, insulin needles are so little, it’s, it’s, I mean, there’s times where I mean, I do a lot of peptides with insulin isn’t things that once in a blue moon, I feel it, but most times, I don’t even feel it when it goes in. And so with that you’re doing multiple times a little bit more often than some people prescribed, that keeps the blood level more level correct. And again, you’re you’re kind of set up is they come to you, you do bloodwork, you do a consultation, if they’re a candidate, everything’s taken care off, like they’re going to get their prescription in the mail, they’re going to get their syringes, they’re going to get the blood testing from you, they’re going to have access to you or your staff for questions. You don’t see this anywhere else that I have seen.

Josh Porter 20:53
Yeah, and one of the things too, is when it comes to dosing, again, trying to match physiologically, right. So if if we know that a medication has a half life of seven days, then if you give one dose a week, you’re going to feel you’re gonna bottom out, right, so that day five, and six, and this is a very common complaint that patients will have. So what we do is we subdivide the dose, you’re still getting the exact same amount weekly, but you’re doing it twice a week, so that you don’t have that same fallout. Patients can also one of the things that testosterone does is it creates what’s called a rethrow cytosis. Okay, so so that is an increase in your red blood cells, hematocrit, hemoglobin, some patients can be a little sensitive to that, and they can feel a little fatigued and things of that nature, you can actually microdose it even further down. So you can sub you can divide your dose into three times a week, for less negative effects such as that if if something like that has an effect on you. But the other thing is, you know, and I don’t, I always jokingly say, I don’t know that I can do this forever. But most of my patients know they can get in touch with me almost anytime, right? Whether it’s through email, phone number, you know, text message through the system, there’s always a way because to us, that’s the only way we can really partner with my patients and have an impact, right? I’ve had patients where they’ve been on something for, you know, three or four weeks, not just calling to check on them. And they say, Hey, you know, here’s how I’m taking my medication and realize really quickly, like, you’re not taking it correctly. So, but they don’t know that you don’t know what you don’t know. And so we we take a great deal of passion in really trying to make sure that we are we’re giving our patients everything we got, you know, I

Ed Jones 22:40
love it. In fact, you know, and we talked about this last week, I referred another client of mine to you. And you know, he’s a great friend of mine a little bit older than I am, while he was on kind of an old school, old fashion, not up to the current standards of too many things to balance his hormones. And I know just through the grapevine and from him telling me, you kind of rearranged the whole platform and program. I knew he needed that desperately, he’s been doing the same thing for way too. And again, I talked about creating a team members, we have to have team members as we age, that are have your passion and is on more of the cutting edge. And lastly, personalizes things for us. We can’t have, we can’t have a team member where you call and leave three messages, and they don’t call you back or they call you a week later. And some nurse says, Well, that’s what he said. So just do it. That is definitely old school. And I know that the struggle is sometimes with insurance. Because when you pay cash, you have a lot more influence, you have people who have to work harder, because they’re not getting insurance reimbursement. And they’re also happier people because they’re not being ruled by the insurance company. So they feel more passionate. After a period of years, you get burned out with the other system. There’s no doubt. So I love the fact that you are in the place of doing this for people, man. And again, it’s not just men, it’s women and men, what percent of your people are men? I know it’s probably more than 50%. Sorry,

Josh Porter 24:06
6040. Okay, yeah. It’s, you know, we, the one thing I’ll tell you about women is they they tell other women, men, I don’t know that men do that all that well, you know, or I’ll have a I’ll see a female patient and next week, I’ll see your husband

Ed Jones 24:23
that a lot. I bet you do. Or vice versa. Vice versa.

Josh Porter 24:28
But yeah, you’re so right, in that, you know, some of the older methods, right. So, one of the things testosterone breaks down into what’s called DHT, which is a very potent, anabolic, androgenic effect. Right?

Ed Jones 24:42
Let’s talk about that for hair loss. Yes.

Josh Porter 24:44
So I’ll tell you this. less than 1% of men are going to be affected by it. And it’s generally the men that you already kind of knew, right? If you if you saw the back of my head, you would know I have male pattern baldness and my father edit my grant. You could see it in the link Ah, when I started testosterone, it did not negatively impact that. Okay?

Ed Jones 25:05
Do you think it’s because the nanite is better or no,

Josh Porter 25:07
there’s a saturation effect on the hair follicle, okay. And so, so it does not necessarily make you lose hair quicker. Now if you’re if you hit it just at the right time where that pattern starts, obviously, you can make the association. But you can treat it if somebody is really sensitive to the male pattern baldness, but the problem is you knock out so many beneficial effects of what testosterone does, right? So the DHT conversion is the lean muscle mass it is the vitality it is it is what makes us feel like a man. And so when you block that in an effort to limit somebody’s hair loss, well, you’re losing really the benefit of not no and that was this situation with your, your referral is. So you’ve got he’s, he’s he’s on a medication. So he’s receiving testosterone, but he’s on a medication that blocks the one conversion of testosterone to DHT, which is not great. But the other conversion that test testosterone does is it converts to estradiol, right? So going back to what we said that’s beneficial for cardiovascular and I’ll point that to a point. Okay. But exogenous Lee, and I’ll explain the difference. So that he was on a medication that blocked that, simply because that was just the train of thought. Now, to your point, there is a difference between endogenous and exogenous, right? So endogenous elevated levels of Esther dial,

Ed Jones 26:31
and that’s what’s produced within the body, right?

Josh Porter 26:33
has been associated with cardiovascular problems in men. Well, we got to ask ourselves, why doesn’t Why does a man who’s not receiving testosterone exogenous ly through administration? Why does he have a high estrogen level? By and large? It’s because he’s producing it from adipose tissue, so that the association would be he’s also overweight, right? And so could it be that the endogenous level of estradiol that’s elevated is simply because you’ve got an unhealthy patient with central obesity or visceral fat, that then leads to cardiovascular? Because you don’t see the same clinical findings on those outcomes studies, when someone’s estradiol level goes up with administration of testosterone? It’s a little different in what you see,

Ed Jones 27:20
okay. I’m just throwing this out. And I think I know the answer, then we’ll start winding things down. You I think you both treat the the piece of paper that you test, but you also treat the reader the feedback from the patient, don’t you? Oh, you don’t just say, oh, I want you at this number, because you need to listen to the patient. And this, just say, if, if I asked you, I’m 65, I weighed 173 pounds, I work out five days a week, as you know, I see you at the gym. What would be what was your experience would be the probable healthy range for me if I want to be truly optimized.

Josh Porter 27:56
So if you’re if you’re talking about a total testosterone, yes, you’re probably looking somewhere. And again, wide range, right? Because everybody’s a little different. 700 to 1200, okay. And then we have something called free test free testosterone, which you get different levels between, you know, some lab services like path group request, we use LabCorp. So when I refer to these numbers, I’m referring to the tests that we use, but by and large, most of the gentleman in the in the 60 plus range. age wise, I’m looking for their free testosterone to be upper teens to mid 20s. And that generally is a great spot. But I’ll tell you something else, that I really, I take this very seriously, I do not, I do not look at someone’s labs before I sit down with them. And the reason I don’t do that is because I don’t want to have a preconceived idea of what they need. And so, so everybody, it’s a very common question. When somebody sits down with me, they’ll say, wouldn’t my last show? And I’ll say, I don’t know yet we’re going to find out together? Because it’s not fair to that patient. If I have in my head, Oh, this guy needs testosterone. Well, what if his level is not there? And or even if his symptoms don’t match it, right? And so it’s just, and the same thing applies to females. And I do the exact same thing with my follow ups, because everybody wants to know, where did my levels go to? Well, I want to know, Hey, how was your sex drive? How’s your how’s your energy level? How’s your how’s your clarity of mind? And if and then if we go and look in your free testosterones 12, but it was six when we started. We don’t want you to get defeated because it didn’t go up to high teens. I’m gonna say, man, we got to win here, right? Like you look at all these symptoms we didn’t we improved on. So I think you’ve got to treat the patient over the lab, whether it’s low normal, or whether it’s high, normal or optimal. You know, I think the patient matters Well, and

Ed Jones 29:45
again, you’ve explained it extremely well. You go if a person has been to their physician, and they did a test for testosterone and they said, Oh, your testosterone is normal. Well, what was it Dr. Well, it’s 472. And they didn’t test a free free is actually what’s working and tell me if I’m wrong. But you know, the total is kind of what’s going through the serum, the freeze, what’s kind of going in the sale, really what goes into sales, what counts. And that’s also true of nutrient testing, we do a lot of nutrient testing. And like red blood cell magnesium, if it’s a serum magnesium patch is worthless. If it’s a red blood cell magnesium test, that’s what’s in the blood cell. So again, the devil is in the details of fine team members who know their stuff backwards and forwards and also care about the patient client. For people who want to learn who’s excited about this, I know they will be wouldn’t hearing it. What would be their next step? What do they need? And how do they need to

Josh Porter 30:34
do this? Well, there’s there’s a few different ways. We have a pretty you know, consistent feedback on social media. So we do a lot of posting on Instagram. And you can find us at at optimize you chat and optimize you is where the year with a you better you Yes, sir. And and we’re also on Facebook, we have And then you can call our office at 423-206-9753.

Ed Jones 31:02
That’s wonderful. And you are also have other expanded services, which is going to be really cool. We’re talking about cryo,

Josh Porter 31:09
yeah. And red light therapy, infrared therapy. We were doing IV therapy now for recovery. And that’s been a huge hit so far.

Ed Jones 31:17
Yeah. So you’ll be doing the vitamin C IVs. And things glutathione. and wonderful. Oh, man. It’s an exciting time. It truly is. And I have never been more inspired by what I do. Because we now have so many more tools in our toolbox, and we have trusted individuals like yourself. Tennant has come a pretty good long ways. I mean, I just told you when I came in, I just did hyperbaric our great place and he’s burrowed I, you know, I’m doing I try all things. I’m the guinea pig. No, I do it. I say yes, this worked for me. No, it didn’t work for me. But I can at least tell you and look you in the eye and say this is how it works, right? So empowering people is kind of the passion of my life, whether they’re our client or customer, not empowering them with knowledge and information. That’s why I do the radio show vital health radio. That’s why do the podcasts, the holistic navigators to educate, not to sell. If we don’t, you know, I’ve said this many times, I kind of separate the world in two classes of people, those who are learners and those who are not learners. If you’re not learner, you’re going to be doomed as you get past 50. Because you’re going to trust the old school advice that is not working, we have a nation full of people who are extremely unhealthy, and they’re not getting any better this because they’re getting the same normal advice. And they’re also the healthcare practitioners are in a broken system is not all their fault. They only have eight minutes to talk to you how they’re going to ask you about your sleep and your food and how clean a water you’re drinking. And and and they’re not they can’t. So they’re frustrated, you’re frustrated, we have to step out of that keep the regular doc for the gatekeeper, but then you got to have your team around. Yes, I believe you are a king daddy of the team member in the conversation of this. So thank you so much for spending your time this morning. And again, optimize you with the you and of course we have your business cards at nutrition, wellness, and if somebody can’t come to you, as they can do a zoom consultation, but like you said, they have to see you one time a year, just one

Josh Porter 33:15
time a year they have to be in the clinic. And so but otherwise, you know, we can do phone calls, Zoom calls, things like that, for follow ups, we can send labs to you know, any LabCorp in the United States so so yeah, we try to make it convenient to our patients. Wow.

Ed Jones 33:30
Wow, what a great service. Thank you, Josh so much. Thank you

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