Oxalate-rich “healthy” foods might be secretly poisoning your body!

Sally Norton 0:00
So we we now have landed in an era where it’s convenient to keep our ignorance of oxalates in place because we develop this theory that plants are so benign and wonderful and we believe this Disney World story about plants are great, and they’re there to make us great. And that’s getting us into big trouble because we’re promoting now foods like almonds, Bran, sweet potatoes, gluten free grains like quinoa, buckwheat, cassava. The nuts in general are now super popular with the low carb movement. The gluten free grains are very popular with the anti gluten thing. We’re getting away from dairy, which is a calcium source, the major calcium source, which is somewhat protective of eating these plants that contain oxalates, chocolate, dark chocolate, blackberries, spinach, beet greens, Swiss chard, these are all like so as to be so great for us. And in fact, they can be slowly silently undermining our health and make us old when we don’t need to.

Ed Jones 1:09
Welcome everyone to another nutrition world edition podcast. That’s going to be and I’ve said this before, but I don’t think I’ve ever had the emphasis one of the most outstanding life changing possible empowering podcasts that we have ever had welcome Sally Norton, to nutrition world.

Thank you, it’s great to be here. I’ve got to talk. And I know I tend to always take the stage initially a little, probably too much. And people say I’ve heard you for 45 years, and you know, let the other person talk. But I gotta set the stage for this. And I gotta tell you one, and I think you are a superhero, not just a hero, a superhero. Because it takes bravery to fight tradition. It takes bravery to counter a lot of these ideas that are so deep seated about how do we become unhealthy? And how do we regain that health. And I’ve been doing this for four and a half decades. And I love what I do. I have a passion. I was born to do this. But let me tell you a little personal story, because I don’t think you know this, Sally, because you wrote a book that changed my life. And I can only say, maybe on one hand, the amount of books that that changed my life. I am 67 almost a very active workout in the gym every day eat. extremely healthy. For all the information that I’ve learned throughout my life. I supplement healthy, I try to sleep healthy, I do a all the EMF healthy, you name it. I pretty much do it. But I still enjoy life. I don’t live in a cave because some people get too obsessed with it. And we try to empower people here at nutrition when we have 17 practitioners, we have 37 staff members. I write a lot of literature, I do a ton of podcasting, radio shows, TV shows, and it’s all about empowering, how do we age gracefully? One? Well, about 50 years old, you know, I started getting these aches and pains. Well, even though I did everything right, I just assumed it was Father Time, I’m active and maybe little wear and tear and inflammation and all these things. And it just kept getting worse and worse. And but I got used to it, you know, you would do what you got to do. And you take what you got to take, you stretch, and you heat up and you do all these little tips.

And about four years ago, I got to where I couldn’t really run anymore, my legs just wouldn’t move. And I about three and a half years, I declined to a point where I was on a cane, I could not function. Even though I went to the gym, I only did upper body. And I would have to lie on the floor and sleep on the floor. Some nights my employees would be like you just can’t get out of your seat. And I got to a point where devastating pain for almost two years most of the time. And I had gotten some X rays and they said you know you got modest arthritis, you don’t have anything terrible. Well, a year later, I go to this great orthopedic that I recommend here in Chattanooga, and Dr. Higgins and he looked at my extra and said how are you walking? Well, I had double hip replacement 11 months ago, today, I think almost today 11 months ago, I had double hip replacement. And

your book, I started reading it maybe a month after I recovered from that starting to recover did very well because I took and did all the right things.

And it just clicked on me. Could it be oxalates and we’re going to talk about this subject of healthy foods that might be destroying the joints, the health, the systems of our body that you have, I won’t say stumbled upon but you have delved into with your whole life and passion and wrote the very first real book on oxalate. So

I won’t tell you the second part. I don’t have any pain now at almost 67 I mean, even the pains of the shoulder, they’re gone. The elbows gone, the fingers, they’re gone. The neck, it’s gone. I don’t

have any pain except on one little heal from jumping rope. That’s the only pain I have anymore unless I do something foolish in the gym. And it is because of you and your book, because I got off a few of the healthy suppose it foods that I had been in taking for 40 years. And it wasn’t hard because it was about 10 things and all it did was reduce a couple nutrients and I took away 10 foods and I’m a new person at almost 67 So first of all, personally thank you, Sally for helping me to age gracefully because I it was not fun to have all the aches and pains. So I want you to now take the stage and kind of tell people the basic story of what I’m referring to as oxalates

Sally Norton 5:44
Well, thank you and for sharing your story with me and your audience because this is where truth begins in the reality of our lives. Not in the theory that’s being put out there on the internet that piles theory upon theory behind wishful hope. It is in the real life of our bodies where the true discovery happens and because you and I both were goody two shoes doing everything right with the EMFs and the fitness and the sleep and everything right. The body responds beautifully when you take out the big demon. There. I love that big demon.

It’s a big hidden demon. It is especially demonic because we are ignoring it. We’re ignoring oxalates most people have never heard the word oxalate oxalates oxalic acid it’s completely a foreign language to us. And the health world is

deliberately ignoring it and pushing foods that contain a lot of this poison that’s naturally made. oxalic acid is a two carbon acid that’s made by plants. It’s in polluted air, the soil fungi make it it’s a lot of places in nature. It’s an end product of oxidation. It has for oxygen molecules hanging on to low carbons. It’s a key later of minerals like calcium in it collects calcium. And plants deliberately use it to manage calcium and to do many things, protect themselves and so on. Plants do a lot of things, chemical tricks and so on to defend themselves and have great physiology. And that’s why most plants 90% of plants in nature are pure, toxic and you can’t eat them. You can’t just wander around the tropical woods and forests and just snatch you have to know what you’re doing. In fact, most of the produce department was invented by human beings corn on the cob. Oh, all the all the produce is pretty sickly from plant selection and careful breeding where we turned a wild and edible, nasty hard woody route of wild carrot into something you can eat something that then 5080 years ago we decided you could actually juice and pretend we could concentrate good stuff out of there and completely ignore the planty toxics part. So we we now have landed in an era where it’s convenient to keep our ignorance of oxalates in place because we develop this theory that plants are so benign and wonderful and we believe this Disney World story about plants are great and they’re there to make us great. And that’s getting us into big trouble because we are promoting now foods like almonds, Bran, sweet potatoes, gluten free grains like quinoa, buckwheat, cassava. The nuts in general are now super popular with the low carb movement. The gluten free grains are very popular with the anti gluten thing. We’re getting away from dairy, which is a calcium source, the major calcium source which is somewhat protective of eating these plants that contain oxalate, chocolate, dark chocolate, blackberries, spinach, beet greens, Swiss chard, these are all like so as to be so great for us. And in fact, they can be slowly silently undermining our health and make us old when we don’t need to be. And you know, I speak this and thank you so much for that perfect perspective. I say often when people say but this food is nutritious I say just because it has nutrients does not mean it’s healthy for us. And the point that I know you and I love Dr. Saladino to and others that make this point. food plants don’t want to die either. They actually have a protective mechanism and from lectins to oxalates to this to that. And I was under the illusion and fantasy two that the earth was here for me. It’s here to serve me. No, it’s not where we’re in. We’re not here to serve it. It’s not here to serve us. We’re here to be in harmony with the earth and find that harmony and it’s not that hard. So first I want to tell people I’ve been on a low low oxalate diet now for almost a year. And you do and Sally will talk about this you’ll get worse before better but that’s part of the process of healing called dumping. And I have worked with about 25 clients up to this point and everything that she says

Ed Jones 10:00
is pretty predictable if you go on a low oxalate diet, and also the end result is predictable, which is so much improvement in symptoms and health. So you went through the list of foods extremely well. And I know potatoes and most of the foods on that list I didn’t really eat but I eat spinach every other day. Almonds every other day at least dark chocolate almost every day.

Sally Norton 10:25
The beats yeah beats all the time, of course. And I would go to places where I could get juices because it’s so packed with nutrients again, just because it’s nutritious does not mean it’s healthy for us. Don’t you agree? Yes, it’s very confusing concept. And unfortunately, there seems to be a deliberate ignorance in the nutrition field that academic nutrition about bioavailability too. We think if we test something in the lab that there’s some minerals there or something or other, that somehow we’re able to gain benefit and use them in in nutrition away. But it’s calcium oxalate, there’s lots of calcium in that food, but it’s doing you no good. In fact, it’s a toxin. And what are some of the most primary symptoms that people have? I know with me, it was joint aches, but I know there are other types too.

I think the joint aches is incredibly common. And because it’s just here and there and it’s you know, you can still sort of get through your day it’s the kind of thing that doesn’t get the respect that it needs to get from us so joint is really good if you’ve got aches and pains and weakness in your get cranky joints or they get swollen here and there that that’s something to pay attention to. It’s it’s possible to have nothing but a neck ache here and there have trouble turning your head all the way when you’re trying to drive right. This simple little things little what’s just irritants? Some people feel engine generally okay, I’m fine asleep. Well, whatever. The thing is, is going to be different in every person. Now the classic thing that oxalate is well known to cause is kidney stones. Because 80% of all Kidney stones are made of calcium oxalate, and it’s the oxalic acid in the foods that you absorb and gets into your system and right away. The oxalic acid is harmful on the gut tissues, but so are these calcium oxalate crystals that the plants make that you don’t move into the bloodstream. They stay in the gut, but they’re, you’re eating, you know, sandpaper.

Not good. And then this, this charge molecule, oxalic acid, very reactive, it’s affecting cell membranes, it’s grabbing minerals from the blood, it’s damaging the circulating white blood cells in your blood. Immediately within 40 minutes of a spinach smoothie, you’re going to see distressed blood cells, you’re going to see high inflammation in the white blood cells and their ability to handle infection isn’t good. So if you tend to have sinus infections over and over again, yeast infections over and over again, with this kind of sensitive sort of infected or inflamed, it could be because your immune system is struggling from this constant exposure meal after meal, you start as a kid getting sweet potatoes and then chocolate and peanut butter and tater tots and potato chips. Like it’s just their meal after meal after meal. Nowadays, you can hardly get through a whole day without being offered potatoes or peanuts or chocolate and so on. So that smacking those blood cells right away. Every day with a meal, your immune system may have a low white count, you may have some trouble with your liver may not tolerate alcohol like you think you ought to or be a little bit chemically sensitive. You could have heard a red Mia’s and you could have twitches and tremors and comes with hiccups and weakness. You could be getting headaches should you be getting anxiety and mood issues. trouble focusing trouble learning and children I definitely think the neurotoxicity of oxalates is affecting their ability to learn and behave, tantrums and cradle cap and rashes. There’s definitely skin issues and these crystals will start forming in the tissues. So you’re absorbing oxalic acid, you’re grabbing minerals from your blood and tissues. It sets up in areas where you have infection and inflammation, reproducing cells anywhere where the cells are turning over. Those kinds of tissues are sticky to oxalate, so oxalic acid crystals start forming. Then they coalesce into these nano crystals that stick to tissues. And in that area. Once you get that sticky going you get that comp chronic and from inflammation and chronic attempt to heal and that just is more of a magnet you get these deposits and tissues joints are especially susceptible. Fascia, tendons, all this connective tissue is especially susceptible. Well now you’ve been draining calcium from tissues and blood. Who is going to fix that your bones so you’re draining the nutrients out of your bones, especially the calcium you’re drilling holes in the bones. Eventually, your bone health deteriorates. People are now getting osteopenia, and osteoporosis is a course of normal if it’s normal. oxalate is collecting in critical

organs like your thyroid gland, which is one of the master glands of the body that helps regulate your metabolism and energy levels. It’s collecting in your eye tissues, which is

not a great thing you might start getting trouble with a night vision with the headlights or bothering you. You might end up with early cataracts you might end up with visual acuity irregularities, even I think even a stigmatism may be partially from on sleep problems. So the thing is, it’s going to be different in each person. But a small little molecule that affects cell health and cell metabolism and energy production affects tissue maintenance. So any tissue can start getting either be a site of collection of oxalate or as a place where tissue maintenance becomes poor. And you start to see degeneration, degenerative degeneration of things like the meniscus linear meet knee that the cartilage in your hips, you start getting stiff fascia and stiff tendons and start getting a little. Although I have someone who has it they know they have a high ox that’s just from the his health history. But they crunched is it? Is it normal, they hear a crunching sound in their neck and bones is that normal? Yeah. And some of that crunching I’m imagining is the sticky fascia, the tendons and muscles are lined in fascia. And there’s a limit of places like in the spine, and neck and shoulders and so on where you have criss crossing muscles and tendons on there’s that stickiness. And so they become this lightweight adhesions going on. And sometimes you have to You’re popping through adhesions, yeah, crunch, crunch, crunch, you’re getting calcification in those tissues so that the normal flexibility in those tissues is is compromised. So that, then you get you’re kind of moving where you can and it’s click, click clicking. Lot of that clicking goes away. I wish I had known in high school when I started getting clicking hips, that that was a sign of oxalate problems. Interesting. And then after this, I want you to kind of explain this thing dumping and how long does it take for the average person to see modest or significant results. But these glasses that I have on I went

Ed Jones 17:06
to a new doctor, he actually became a customer of the store, I was going to a big commercial place and they were doing fine. But this guy’s owned his own business. And he’s very much into not eating seed oils. And we talk about that on my radio shows and all the things and I know you believe in that also, which is the canola safflower is these are very harmful Omega sixes. And so I go in four weeks ago to get my eyes checked. I get it checked every 12 months I had to get my eyes had improved so much in 12 months, he could not believe how much better my eyesight was. Well, of course, it meant a new pair of glasses. I don’t care. This is crazy. If they’ve always declined every year or else stayed the same. They’ve never gotten better. And so what was it in 12 months that changed nothing but low oxalate diet. Now I did dump I felt awful for a few months tell us about dumping.

Sally Norton 17:59
So dumping is this concept where a lot of release of this deposits in the tissue starts happening at one time where you start overwhelming. And you get very obvious symptoms of this D accumulation process because the real long term problem of oxalate is not just day to day running your immune system and your vascular system and your connective tissues. But you’re collecting toxic crystals in your tissues, giving a real problem to immune system who has to manage all this immune systems trying to keep all them quiet and wrapped and tucked away like little tiny barrels of waste hidden beneath an old gas station. And now you stop eating the stuff the need to sequester and very and hold on to oxalate changes significantly. You stop eating it and the body’s like, oh my gosh, I Superfund site cleanup is on the way.

And if that starts going real enthusiastically at one time, you can make yourself sick, recirculating all that old beets and spinach and almond oxalate and putting it back into the bloodstream or pushing it out of your skin or pushing it out of the eye fluids, pushing it out of your saliva, even excreting it in the colon and burdening your kidneys because the kidneys are the principle physiologic exit route for oxalate. But so is the skin and many other tissues as I’ve just mentioned. So this idea of dumping is the idea that it’s going too fast, too furious, that the clearing process is going to be happening and sometimes you can be healing tissues and removing obviously from tissues at a level that’s

mild enough that you have very little symptoms. And sometimes it’s just now and then oh the cranky hip comes back for a day a week, six months. Some skin rashes happened some fatigue happens nighttime urination because it’s your kidneys and bladder are the major exit routes so they’re continuing to traffic and oxalate release. What’s surprising to me is that kidney function and bladder function quickly improved

If so if you have bladder painful bladder syndrome syndrome, some people get quick relief from that. Other people need three or four years of oxalate clearing before their bladder is happy again, why some people can rebuild the gag layer in their bladder and reduce the immune activity in the bladder has to do with specifics to your body that may be genetic, but may just be that for so long, you’ve trained the immune system to be trying to protect this bladder lining that’s been perpetually damaged from high oxalate all the time, that you’re not over this sort of auto immune attacking of this area where the immune system is overly engaged. This is a big problem with oxalates, you’re full of crystals, you’re asking the immune system to turn on all over the place. And if it’s turning on all at once you get way too much immune engagement. So the dumping process is poisoning yourself from the inside. And we need to calm that down and not let it get too extreme. And the continuous clearing of crystals is continually burdening your immune system. And it’s possible that with this clearing process itself, there’s a certain pathology in that as well. Some people might be at risk during the years of clearing oxalates to increase their tendency to certain kinds of autoimmune issues, because you’re keeping your immune system working too hard, which is why it’s so important to prevent this problem, not wait to fix it later.

Ed Jones 21:27
And you know, I want to reassure people just because I have almost a year of experience, and again learn from your book toxic superfoods, which is available anywhere, Amazon and whatever

is I do, and I lean toward a very high protein, healthy fat diet and a little bit reduced carbs just for my workout. And I think my health and I but I also still have a connection to I will probably never get past a connection to certain healthy foods, like broccoli that contains indole, three carbinol. And I just I will never be up straight carnivore. But I do believe in healthy meats in a large degree. I enjoy my foods. Now as much as I ever have in my whole life, I have to be more picky and I have to be a little more selective of restaurants that I go to to make sure they at least have a few things that I can eat, that will not bother me. And again, I’m out almost 12 months into following your protocol within your book to toxic foods. And an app or two that I’m looking at occasionally, I now know every food that I should need. So I don’t need to look up anything. But I won’t get people to reassurance you’re not going to be living on for foods you have plenty to choose from. I did a video about four months ago I think on YouTube nutrition world’s YouTube channel is probably about 30 minutes long talking about why did I have double hip replacement. And I spoke of you very much in that video and we had 20,000 views in one week. It was pretty amazing. And I know that nutritionally wise, I take a tremendous amount of supplements, I still believe in those, I get so much blood work and I work with clients that get blood work that we can go from average to optimal pretty darn quickly if we do the right supplements and the right diet knife and fork still the most powerful weapon there is. And I but I had to cut out a few things. Some of the supplements are I know tumeric, which is not not curcumin I take but Tumeric I can’t. But let’s go through some of the supplements expecially one of my near and dear to my heart vitamin C’s that I’ve done my whole life that I’m now down to about 100 milligrams a day. And guess what? I’m fine.

I live

are fine getting just what you need. You mean cells need a little bit of vitamin C. And 100 is pretty generous for them as long as you’re not inflamed with sepsis. When you have sepsis, then it’s worth maybe going out Yes, absolutely during a crisis it but the nutrient becomes a drug and you can withstand anything for a couple of weeks. So yes, you’re right, especially the IV with the Athan man for sepsis. That is life saving if any hospital would do it. And again, before I know I’m going off another road here, do not expect any of your traditional health care workers and physicians and nurses and nurse practitioners and PAs to say anything but this is bunk, except they might admit the kidney stones. That’s the only thing they’ll probably admit. However, if they’re open minded and they’re willing to learn, they will they will see there’s a connection between oxalates and a lot of their clients problems. And again, some people don’t have problems but most people do. So what does it take to figure this out? And experiment, you just follow your book, that’s all you need to do and you’ll find out for yourself. You’re not selling any magic elixirs and pills. And but as far as supplements, what supplements should we be modestly are greatly concerned about? Yeah, the supplements open up an area we haven’t talked about yet. And hopefully if we have time I want to come back around and talk about a cigarette analogy.

Sally Norton 25:00
Eat to understanding this in perspective. So let’s talk about the supplements because there’s this idea of a precursor to oxalate and that means a compound can become obsolete in our physiology in our liver. And sometimes in other cells, certain compounds are turned into oxalate. And that can happen anywhere in the body. Truthfully, Vitamin C is the major precursor of oxalate production in the body, no question about it a huge amount of the oxalate and of what we call endogenous production, that’s when some compound gets converted into oxalate in the body, you make about 12 milligrams, maybe 15 milligrams a day indigenously under normal conditions. But you start taking vitamin C, the major precursor, and that goes crazy. In the research we have is a little bit limited. But doing vitamin C challenge studies, eight to 10 days giving people five 810 milligrams of vitamin C, what you see is the excretion of oxalate goes down because you put the body back into that sequestration mode. With vitamin C sets up in the tissues, the tissues hold on to it, trying to control it. And then later when you stop taking it, the oxalate levels go way up in the urine.

So there’s this sequestration holding pattern, which is partly why medicine is confused, because they’re not paying attention to the actual way the body works, the body is wise and is managing this toxicity in the background, but they’re imagining the body as some kind of plastic tube, you pour in one end, it falls out the other.

But that your body is really wisely made is incredibly sophisticated, way more sophisticated than the researches. So these precursors big problem and you can just use too much vitamin C is enough to make yourself toxic with Oxley, you don’t need almonds, you don’t need spinach. Don’t need beets, you don’t need potatoes, you can just do it with vitamin C. Collagen is another one if you’re using more than a tablespoon of a collagen supplement a day that increases oxalate levels in the urine. Those are the major ones and then of course, there’s things like

slippery elm. This lot of crystals though slippery elm is very, very high in oxalate. Kind of like seeds, it’s very much the insoluble but there’s enough to soluble, so slippery ALMS problem, and that’s in a number of different supplements and also some of these sort of detox supplements. Holroyd, tumeric, super uber high and Oxley, but you make an extract called curcumin extract, and it has none. Wonderful. So I had to cut out about probably seven of my supplements still have all the rest. And these seem to be perfectly fine. I want to remind you it’s cigarette analogy, what we’re going to talk about, right, so cigarettes are considered unhealthy.

There’s warnings on the packages that that’s going to cause lung cancer, to realize that less than 10% of smokers get lung cancer. And yet, it’s considered enough of a justification to warn people that cigarettes are dangerous for your lung health. It doesn’t take all of us for it to matter. And sometimes the attitude when you learn about oxalates is Hey, so and so has been eating this for 30 years or 70. Look at he’s 75 He seems okay, so it must be fine. That’s it doesn’t work out and other top health topics, why would it not apply here? Yes, yes, I will tell you a quick personal story. We have a lab here at nutrition world where we do blood testing every Tuesday, Thursday. And this was a second thing and I know I’ve heard you speak. And I agree with you. blood testing is not an accurate way to determine if you have oxalis. However, I want to put a bug in your ear. At least from my experience. I’ve tested about 30 people with blood levels for oxalates. My blood lab only a year ago got the test for oxalates.

Ed Jones 28:51
When I got my test, I was so skyrocketing. They’d never seen a number so high. I’ve tested 25 People probably almost everyone has no high levels, except unless they’re massively dumping at the hour that they give the blood. And so I tell everybody, the blood test is not very accurate. If it says you’re high, you’re high. If it says you’re low, you don’t have a clue. It does not tell you anything. So it’s not worth the money. And it’s not reliable enough, but at least in my case, and two and at least three, three other people that were skyrocketing. They also were skyrocketing and aches and pains and we’re falling apart. Now a month later they weren’t it went back to his so that’s where I am with the blood testing. I don’t think it’s worth it. But in my case, it really confirmed to me exactly what you’ve wrote about in the toxic superfood book. body’s not going to leave a toxin in the blood for very long. Exactly. Blood is the river of perfection. Everybody, all the organs and tissues are busy keeping the blood as good as it can be. Yeah, so that’s why this dumping is so dangerous because you’ll get into a rhythm and there’ll be such a drop in calcium levels. You get into tremors and all kinds of

Sally Norton 30:00
things that causes, you know, constriction of the, the, when nerves get toxic, it’s often because electrolytes are not right, you lose that calcium and the nerves become firing in ways that are turning on these muscle cells. And so the vascular tissue, the arteries have muscles in them, they start constricting, your blood pressure goes through the roof, your heart, pacemaker is really confused. When calcium is absent, and you start losing proper heart rate, you start getting all kinds of crazy symptoms. hypocalcemia is happening when you get those high blood spikes of of oxalate being released into the tissues. hypocalcemia can kill you. Interesting, because I’ve not thought of this. But I had some massive type of neuropathy pain from the hip down, that I didn’t feel like was related to the hip itself. And it was like electrical charges, and there was nothing that would stop it. And I have none of that now. And that was happening before I even had pain in my hip. So interesting. I mean, I’ve learned already so much I’d have no idea slippery elm was full of that was something I don’t use. But your book explains all of that. I know you have a second book coming out, what is that going to be? That is the data companion to toxic superfoods. And that is a compilation and organization and color coded data to try to teach you how to understand the oxalate content and foods. Because sometimes in order to manage this oxalate clearing from the body, you have to tell it to go back into sequestration mode and quick the dumping. So you have to add back an appropriate amount of obsolete to the diet as a way of controlling that release process. It’s safer to leave Superfund sites buried under the ground undisturbed. So by telling the body to quit digging up Superfund sites in your tissues, you can feel a lot better. And sometimes you can do it in under an hour. If you take you know half cup of sweet potatoes, you can tell the body quick Oh, this.

And this is a tool that can help people that are that being that sophisticated isn’t really going to be good for people in a position of educating others, clinicians and so on. But a lot of people are just really curious to start becoming

Ed Jones 32:13
savvy about oxalate and where it is and be able to think well about it and see the confusion in the data and see that one rule like if you boil your broccoli and throw away the water that reduces the oxalate by half or a third. But if you do that to asparagus, it doesn’t do anything. Thank you. There’s there’s no hard and fast rules. If you start studying the data, you can start to see you know what, I gotta quit making stuff up and just know we need more data, we need more information, and quit pretending we know more than we do. You are such a Explorer. And to do that is takes bravery. Because again, when you’re trying to discover the New World, it everybody’s against you, it seems and I just commend you greatly for your passion, your devotion to continue this path. Because I know you get a lot of I won’t say hate emails, but you get a lot of ugly ones. And also your Instagram and your YouTube if you just go to YouTube and put in Sally Norton oxalates and your YouTube is excellent to help those small bits of information get plugged into our brains, as far as supplements that help to further the detoxifying of oxalates what are some of those calcium and say that right there, I quit doing all calcium. I would like we get we already have too much calcium, we need more magnesium and all these things, which we do. But I quit drinking. I quit having any dairy products except maybe unsweet yogurt, but I didn’t do it with other foods. And so I was on a pretty much dairy free diet. I was setting myself up for a perfect trifecta of aches and pains which happened and now again, I am 99% pain free at almost 67 years old. Yeah, it cut to dairy and vitamin C and eat a few of these outside foods and you are on your way to some ugly things. So the nutrients that will open this channel for some of these oxidants to help themselves read that oxalate is the natural binder, you’re looking for a detox binder to detox oxalates This is language people use it’s really just excretion it’s trafficking. It’s digging it out and moving it out safely. It’s not really a detox. Technically, a detox would be liver enzymes and all of them. This does not involve the liver cannot

Sally Norton 34:26
enzymatically do anything about oxalate. It’s an end product. The liver only makes obsolete so that’s like remember people who don’t detox Oxley you excrete it. The liver produces oxalate you can’t add detox herbs and detox programs and get the liver to fix you. That’s not how this works. Do you provide that binder calcium, and that facilitates the colon removing the oxalate that helps you deal with the basic calcium deficiency that you’ve created, that you will periodically create right in the bloodstream as you release obsolete. So having calcium avail

elbow for the wise body to decide to absorb it when it wants to, to have it available in the colon for colonic excretion, this is key. The thing about the oxalate is it or the calcium is it encourages the body to do more of the clearing because hey, here comes the binder. Now we have a way to get the stuff out of here. So adding calcium can increase the dumping symptoms as soon as sometimes we have to add some obsolete it to our difference with away from that calcium supplement to help the person maybe a cup of tea in the morning and calcium two hours before that. To help you remove the oxalates you have without getting into that drama of too much toxicity coming from inside. So calcium is key. I’m a big fan of potassium, big 10 fan of salt, and magnesium getting these minerals right adding in trace minerals I love all of that I usually we start with the citrate form because citric acid breaks down oxalate crystals. Citric acid helps you rebuild bones and teeth. Citric acid helps you prevent kidney stones. Citric acid is a alkalizer as his calcium is chock the chronic inflammation that oxalates causing causes chronic acidity turn on immune system, you create more acidity. So we’re constantly dealing with this acidity, acidity and dealing with the ongoing loss of minerals. So we keep replacing the minerals. And we keep addressing that acidity. Those are two key things we’re doing chronically as we are recovering. And this whole process of removing oscillate from your thyroid gland and your tendons in your neck, and the joint tissues and the bones of your spine and your hip and so on. This can be 10 or more years of cleanup. And that’s fine. But the but you can get to feel better. But the thing is the first year, you’re probably gonna get substantial improvement and enough to make your life work like you wanted to some people right away, they hit it, they hit a sort of hormone, or what we often call is honeymoon period of the first week of WoW, suddenly somebody dimmed down all the noise in our bodies. Suddenly the body is like kind of content and quiet and peaceful like a meadow on a sunny day. Wow. And then you start getting clearer. And maybe a week later, a month later, six months later, I’ve had people feel fine on a zero oxalate diet where they went into a carnivore or fully meat diet. And six years later, there’s they’re suddenly aware that here comes the oxalates their body waited that long. So you can go from you’re already dumping when you start the diet. So you never get that honeymoon or you get a six year honeymoon and then you’re doing the oxalate dumping. So knowing about this, understanding it reading the book, and so on will give you more of a way to judge what’s going on. You know, we work with, again, about probably 30 People 40 People who most I think have read your book, toxic superfoods. And you know, we have them on a certain nutritional protocol. And we make sure we eliminate the things that that you have spoke about, we actually have a product now it’s labeled Aqua guard that has about seven of those and sulphurs, one of those sulfurs kind of important too, I like it, I assume is probably one of the software products. And I just think, you know, balancing that is the other other side of this puzzle. I just, I’m thrilled that we can help other people because this is, is life changing. It just is this isn’t like I have more energy, I sleep a little better. Those are all important. This is life changing. And we have been sold a bill of goods from good people now not people who are out to do us harm. But they’ve been they’ve been in a belief system that I’ve been in plenty of those that I found to be not as true as I wanted them to be. And you know, at this point, I’ve never had an experience where it went from darkness to light like I have with reducing my oxalates. And again, it’s not a fun journey when you’re dumping. I questioned you because after one month, I was worse. And you know, everything ate not just my hips, everything ate, from the neck to the elbows to the wrist of the fingers to the you name it, almost everything did and I’m like, What is she talking about? But you kept saying dumping. And I understood I watched your videos. And I listened intently and I just stuck through it. And I did not give in I did not eat those foods even though oh my gosh, I want that protein bar which most bars are made with things that have oxalates there’s only a couple out there that I can really eat anymore because I can’t eat almond butter. And I can’t eat all the things that are in there. So you know it is a tiny bit frustrating but you rearrange your life you fill your kitchen with the things you can eat and your your lunch pail when you’d go to work or whatever. So any other thoughts that we want to leave people with? But there is that mental overhaul and redefining what food really is. Food has to not just nourish you has to not be harmful. You can hardly even define an almond as food if you understand the degree of harm.

Not just oxalates and almonds, they’re example of a truly toxic food that’s masquerading as safe. So it’s not like you’re being deprived of anything, if you’re going to feel fantastic and live a great life, how could almonds be in any way going to get in your way of grabbing the life you want. And so it’s really exciting when people do persist, they do have that fortitude to understand this can be the foundational piece to your longtime well being, just stick it out, stick with paying attention, oxalates, take some calcium, do the basics, quit looking for more and more answers. And learn about this. If you stick it out, you’re gonna be rewarded in the long run, and you’re gonna be in a position to tip off a few other people who you love. Why is that not the truth, because they, once the some of these people whose life has changed, they become they’re preaching, they are now in a good way, not in a terrible way. And

you know, they’re willing, they’re able to convince other people, Hey, all you got to do is cut off these foods. Now, some people are not in a place, they can comfortably do it. But it’s okay. You know, we meet people where they are when we are when we can, but I want to just Super, thank you. So where do you live at actually, I’m in Virginia, Virginia, Richmond, Virginia. And you also do online counseling to one on one and group what Tell me about that for people who do group meetings at least twice a month. Sometimes it’s even four times a month that you can come to a group meeting and meet other people. And then it’s a two hour process, I teach for over an hour with slides and give people lots of handouts and information. It’s pretty much the whole deal. Some people keep coming back, there’s a few people who one in particular, she’s been there 105 times, then most people come once or twice, but you can continue to use the things that I’m providing to give you the support you need. It’s there were there were a growing community, we want to support anyone who’s interested in this, I love it. And we want to be an arm of that in any way we can. So I’m sure you and I will communicate as the days months go on to see what else we perhaps can partner on. Because we can double our forces perhaps in other ways. So just so many ways in educating people on the front lines, and then collecting data and collaborating and research. So we can really codify and explain to the world, the dumping phenomena and the problem with oxalate and start to characterize the healing process and be in a position so that healthcare providers can be more aware of this. You know what, and I’m gonna then quit thinking and talking we’ll get to in this but I think I remember you speaking or writing about the fact and I talked this on the radio show this morning, I said, and you tell me if I’m wrong or not. But in England and other places where rhubarb was grown just naturally had a certain season of rhubarb, not like today where you can grow it all year long. The literature wrote about people having so many more aches and pains during rhubarb season. Well, they had no idea that rhubarb is one of the highest oxalate foods there is. I mean, just looking at logical historical storytelling. Let’s say rhubarb came in it’s got a lot of oxalates people ate it like crazy, because it was a plant that just had a short season, everybody or not everybody, most people would complain about aches and pains. That kind of says something doesn’t. We have lots of real world experience to see see how this plays out. That was in the early 1800s. Rhubarb was quite the fan in England, you know, the horse poop was picked up and taken to greenhouses and outside the towns. And in came the rhubarb, they would force it in greenhouses for Christmas, and fancy people could afford these charts. And they would be fellow doctors, and they’d show up with obstruction and mood changes, they’d become neurotic and all these neurotoxicity. And they recognized that it was because the urine analysis then was a big thing. And so the experts in urine analysis and expert professors of medicine, which is a new field at that time, quickly identified this oxalic acid diathesis, where certain people get particularly sick pretty quickly when they start eating high oxalate foods. The problem back then is we didn’t have good chemical analyses for these complex fluids, like urine and foods are very complex. So it’s quite difficult to really isolate and quantify how much obsoleted so we didn’t know at the time how bad potatoes were, or tea so the poor English were eliminated rhubarb but didn’t know that the potatoes and tea were that base amount of oxygen in their diet that made rhubarb that much more poisonous, interesting, and they’re telling me remind me that we’ll end this there are animals that migrate into fields with a lot of boxes that actually died, don’t they? Yeah, you can see circa beets are major commodity. Oh, yeah, we use the beets to make sugar and then there’s the tops. What do you do with them you you take garbage and modern agriculture, you take garbage, stubble and a soy field whatever and you use it to feed cattle and sheep. Will if you put too much beet tops or too much stubble in a

feed group you can kill them with your feed or make them quite sick, they start having miscarriages and start getting hypocalcemia and getting sick. And this is there’s wild weeds too that have caused so many problems in the North America with lambing and sheep herds that we don’t even grow lamb much here anymore. We import lamb from Australia because we have this weed problems that make it too expensive because you’re killing 20 animals on our high oxalate forages, because grass doesn’t have high calcium. So you start eating a calcium robbing weed, and you quickly damage these animals. Last question, I’m gonna stop you said mood. How does oxalates affect mood?

It’s a neurotoxin. And it creates a lot of inflammation in the nervous system and brain inflammation creates problems with anxiety, depression, panic,

anger, irritability, fear, it’s really quite interesting. I was surprised at people came to me with depression and said I think oxalates are causing my depression like, I don’t think so. And then people would come to me through social media and say 30 years of anxiety, I’ve been in therapy every week for 30 years, a month on your diet. And and I don’t need therapy. I’m fine. I hear this all the time. And I think that neurotoxic toxicity is the most important piece of oxalate poisoning, because fundamentally as a fetus and a child, especially this first 1000 days of life from conception to age to your neurotoxic How you going to learn and develop as a human being.

Ed Jones 46:34
Our potential for performance, intellect, happiness, the size of our bodies. oxalates are affecting our human potential. I don’t think we even know how fantastic the human race is, because we’ve been messing around with too much peanut butter and potatoes for too many years. And you know, I didn’t realize how good I could feel I had forgot how good it felt to be in my 40s. Maybe earlier, I feel like I’m in my 30s to 40s Thank you, Sally so much for that because personally, that would not have happened because what health nuts do is I must not be eating enough of these good foods. And that’s why I’m not doing as well as I want to. Let’s double the amount Let’s drink some of the concentrated juices. Let’s make celery in Spanish and do all this. And I’m still feeling terrible. I’m just doing something wrong. Know what I’m doing wrong is I just didn’t know about oxalates. And so you’re going to change the world Sally and we are going to be connecting again. I know in the future. Thank you so much for spending your time this morning. Thank you.