How to Stop Heartburn Safely and Naturally

Heartburn. Acid reflux. GERD.. Whatever you want to call it, it is incredibly unpleasant, and it impacts millions of people in this country every single day. On this episode of The Nutrition World Podcast, we are discussing what heartburn is, why the conventional medical treatments are problematic, and offering natural solutions to help provide relief. 

Meet Julia Craven:

Our guest today is Julia Craven. Julia is the VP of Education and Innovation for Enzymedica. She has been in the industry for over 30 years and is an expert in digestive and therapeutic enzymes. She has experience as a product formulator, as a traditional herbalist, certified yoga instructor and is a lifelong learner. We’re proud to have her as our guest this week. 

Some Points We Discuss:

  • What is heartburn and how does it really happen in the body? (3:22)
  • What are PPI drugs and how do they actually cause more harm than good long term? (5:21)
  • How do you stair step down off of a PPI? (9:18)
  • What are better long term solutions for heartburn? (10:27)
  • What is DGL? (19:41)

Some Key Takeaways From This Episode:

  • Stomach acid, when in healthy amounts, is excellent for healthy digestion as well as the immune system. (3:40)
  • Acid is not a demon, it just needs to be in the proper place. (4:52)
  • Long term use of PPIs, calcium carbonate, etc. can shut down the body’s ability to properly digest food. (8:15)
  • There are plenty of natural options to help with heartburn. (14:34)

Julia Craven 00:00
So how a PPI is supposed to work, you're supposed to be in a pretty serious situation. Say you're having some issues with gastric tissue ulceration and you're in a lot of discomfort. You're supposed to go take the PPI, take it for, you know, six weeks and then stop. Yes, that's where they're really good. They work really well for that, because in that time, you're secreting less acid, your stomach tissue can start to regenerate good, healthy process, right? Well, that's not how it actually works. You're listening to the Nutrition World podcast a show about navigating the intricacies of holistic wellness. We're a natural health food store located in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and we believe that optimal health and peak performance should be accessible to everyone. Hello friends. Welcome back to the podcast. On today's episode, we have the pleasure of speaking with Julia Craven. Julia is the VP of education innovation at a company called Inza, medica. And if you're unfamiliar with Informatica, well, they're all about enzymes. And Julia's gonna break down some problems in one area specifically, and that's acid reflux, heartburn, GERD, whatever you want to call it, it's an issue here. So she's going to tell us why it's an issue, what we can do about it, and then offer some natural solutions that can help along the way, and, and why the conventional treatment of this is becoming such an issue. That's really one of the most important parts about this conversation. So without any further ado, let's go ahead and jump into this conversation with Ed in Julia Craven.

Ed Jones 01:34
Welcome, Julia to Nutrition World's podcast. And today is is a topic that is probably near and dear and also aggravating to millions of people in this country. And that is heartburn. I know a very few people who have not experienced that. And I want to today, of course, as always empower people with more knowledge. So welcome to this podcast.

Julia Craven 01:55
Thank you so much for having me, it's just a joy to travel here and be with you. And I love talking about heartburn too, as much as I don't ever want to have to talk about it. Again, it's such an interesting topic.

Ed Jones 02:05
It is. And again, as people who listen to me often know that, you know, we kind of dig into the broken system of the normal process that goes with our health. And it is certainly exemplary about this path of heartburn. Because what people are utilizing, is not really healthy for the long run, it may be okay for a short run. And I always talk about what we call functional nutrition or functional medicine. And that means looking into the why of something instead of just the what, it's easy to go to a health professional and they say, Oh, you have heartburn. But how many of them are ever asked, Why do you have heartburn? Let's dig into that. And to me, that's the whole concept of health, especially as we get older, because the third leading cause of death in this country is pharmaceutical drugs that are actually properly prescribed and properly taken. So we have to dig deeper in each of our own lives, I believe in order to help assist, heal and manage ourselves without the use of more and more symptomatic treatment drugs. And I constantly have had an article on nutritionw.com. If you google and you put in the word heartburn or GERD, I wrote an article years ago about how this all works. And then secondly, how do we get off of some of these drugs, which are not always easy to do? So let's start with a primer. I mean, I think everybody knows what heartburn is, but maybe explain it like the machinery of how it's happening.

Julia Craven 03:29
Sure, exactly. So as we all know, when we go through the process of digestion, we secrete lots of acid in our stomach, lots of gastric acid, that's a good thing it is it's a really good thing. It's not only helping to break down the food so that it's more bioavailable when it gets into the in the small and the large intestine. So it's doing that first breakdown work. But it's also what I call the digestive defense system. And what that means is that if you have plenty of stomach acid in a healthy way, then you're able to break down a lot of those pathogens that we swallow with our food. That's something people don't think about that relationship between stomach acid being really good for not just breaking down food, but also for your immune system. It's a huge part of your immune system, if you don't have enough stomach acid, because of some of these medications that you have talked about. Now we're dealing with the whole second problem. So when we have this overproduction of stomach acid, which can happen for many, many reasons, maybe it's just a food that you ate, but there's an underlying condition. Sometimes that's a lack of digestive enzymes. There are enough enzymes in the system, the body responds in kind and using the only tool it has, which is a lot of acid. So that's where people start to really experience some symptoms. Of course there's medications that can trigger this as well. And then our favorite little bacteria h pylori is often responsible as a setup for heartburn situation.

Ed Jones 04:52
Exactly. And and I love the fact that you made the statement because the media makes acid out as a demon. Acid is imperative to our long term health, it just doesn't need to be here to stay down here. Yeah. And so much of this has to do with the sphincter muscle, which is a gasket, and everything from a hernia to pushing on it to the wrong foods. And we'll go through that a little bit. But there are answers to this because and I want to get into First off, the reason why we don't want to stay on what we call a ppi, proton pump inhibitor. Long term because it can be devastating the new research coming out. I mean, you're going to talk about from memory loss to blank, blank, blank osteoporosis, you name it is, is sad, because these drugs are given out or not even given out much, because now they're over the counter, like candy. And people say I feel better. Well, feeling better is not the clue that that's you're doing the right thing always. It just isn't. So tell us about? Of course, everybody has heartburn is going to be recommended a drug over the counter, what's going to happen if to some people not all, but if they stay on it long term.

Julia Craven 06:01
Right? So you mentioned this proton pump inhibitors. And what those do is they actually shut down the acid production in your stomach. But as you mentioned, we do have proton pumps, other places in our bodies, many other places in our bodies, including our brains.

Ed Jones 06:16
Really? I did not know that.

Julia Craven 06:17
So that's the connection with proton pump inhibitors and Alzheimer's and dementia. That's why some of these proton pump inhibitors have been taken off the market within the last few years because of this connection, which is enormous. So how a PPI is supposed to work, you're supposed to be in a pretty serious situation, say you're having some issues with gastric tissue ulceration, and you're in a lot of discomfort. You're supposed to go take the PPI, take it for, you know, six weeks, and then stop. That's where they're really good. They work really well for that. Because in that time, you're secreting less acid, your stomach tissue can start to regenerate good, healthy process, right? Well, that's not how it actually works. Most people stay on them for an extensive period of time, shutting down their stomach acid long term, really taking an impact on digestion, as well. But what happens is eventually they say, well, I don't really want to be on this anymore. I think I'm better. So they stopped taking the PPI. And what does the body do? It says, it's time to party, let's do some stomach acid rebound, and you get what's called a rebound effect. And so then we had the person that says, See, I need to be on the PPIs. And they become so hard to get off of, unless you know how to stair step down.

Ed Jones 07:32
And stair step, the perfect word. I mean, I, through just all my decades of experimenting partially on myself, and then listening to so many clients. You know, I kind of have a stairstep. And I think all of us in this field have maybe different ideas on that. I do talk about a little bit again on nutritionw.com. And we are not treating medical conditions. We're here just to empower people with new ideas and choices and knowledge about things. I'm blown away by the fact that Did you know, I'm pretty well read, I did not know PPIs proton pumps were in the brain. That's so cool. No wonder that we're getting that side effect, right? And what are a few of the other side effects. I know osteoporosis is going to be humongously, which is already epidemic. And part of the reasons is the dadgum PPIs.

Julia Craven 08:15
Yep, it is. And I do want to mention, in addition to PPIs, there's also the things that just neutralize stomach acid, those things are taken over the counter and people eat like candy. So when we're neutralizing stomach acid, again, we're just shutting down that whole natural system in the body, we're not allowing acid to do its job. And then what happens is people keep on having to take these calcium carbonate kinds of things. Because the body again, is always just so intelligent, and striving for homeostasis. So if we spend so much of our energy on digestion, right, and then we're shutting down digestion all the time, our body is having to work that much harder to just do what was built to do.

Ed Jones 08:58
Using up so much energy that could have been used for productivity, for healing for other purposes. So we know I think we've covered the dangers of PPIs. And again, I'm hugely connected to the fact that these are wonderful drugs on short runs. And when I say short run, I usually mean two weeks, no more than six at six weeks and more, you're going to create a rebound effect when you come off instantly. And so on my protocol I do stairstep people on to the other drug which is a histamine blocker, because it's safer, not perfect but far safer. And then that's a stairstep with enzymes in the right nutritional backup. And so a person and I'll personal story here I had many years ago, I started having heartburn out of nowhere and I did everything I took everything I couldn't figure it out because I'm a real detective about my own body, foods and nutrients. Come to find out it was because I was bench pressing and letting the bar hit my chest and it was pressing the sphincter muscle and four hours later I was dying. Well I just didn't connect until one day it went off and I said, you know I tell people don't let your grandkids step on your your on your belly don't do yoga and bend over. And I thought, I'm putting this benchpress bar and I'm squeezing my chest because I want to do the right kind of maneuver. I hardly ever had heartburn since it's unless strange foods or, you know, lack of sleep and stress will cause it absolutely no doubt. Yeah, but 99% of the time it doesn't. But the amount of people who suffer from this, and is and acid's going to cause damage if it gets here where it shouldn't be, which is Barrett's esophagus, eventually, yeah, let's start talking about okay, person has heartburn. They understand the risk of these drugs, they have them on hand, in cases really bad short run. But what's the long term better thought pattern and solution perhaps?

Julia Craven 10:40
Well, as you all know, it always starts with diet and lifestyle, right? I mean, that's the foundation, that's the beginning, if we're not doing that, just don't even take the pills quite yet. So we're looking at our diet, as far as I mean, as always, no matter what kind of healthy diet you're following, as long as it's whole foods, like let's just start there with whole foods, real food, get the junk food out, and see what happens. First, taking a digestive enzyme to help to make that transition can also be really helpful, because a lot of times the body doesn't even know how to digest these foods. And so we're just giving it a little hand. So a nice, you know, mid to lower potency, even digestive enzyme that helps to digest all the major food groups. So that's where I start people and then with lifestyle things, let's look at your stress. Let's look at what's going on. Let's look at when you're eating, are you eating right before bed? You know, are there situations like what you had, with really, you know, too much pressure there? Or is it pregnancy? Or do we need to lose 10 pounds, like start with those really basic things. And then another thing is just, I like to have people just go on ahead and get tested for H. Pylori. Because if we can take care of that, straightaway, now we've really taken care of what one of the foundational issues can be. So we're looking at, you know, just getting the proper kind of testing first and you're very knowledgeable. You probably have another idea with this as well. But dealing with those foundational lifestyle things first, chew your food. I mean, let's look at alcohol. NSAID use, are you using a lot of NSAIDs every day? It's something like 19% of the population is way overdosing themselves on NSAIDs.

Ed Jones 12:19
And those are Advil, Motrin, aspirin, those type of drugs.

Julia Craven 12:21
Absolutely. And so, you know, let's look at that foundational thing first, what do you suggest for people?

Ed Jones 12:28
Well, and that's so wise, because, again, just because we're in the world of natural and holistic and more remedies based on nature, we still can fall back into we're treating symptoms, and we don't really look deep enough to fix the underlying condition. And that is super, super important. And of course, we need you to know that the foods that weaken the sphincter muscle is chocolate in excess, alcohol, peppermint, in fact, I've had more people and I can count who they would eat a small peppermint candy after dinner, and they kept having this heartburn and when they cut out the small peppermint candy, the heartburn went away, because it's weakening the gasket. What does that do? It allows acid to creep back up a little bit later. It could be 10 minutes, it could be two hours. But we need to look at these things. And of course, sometimes cigarette smoke, hernias. Hernia is one that is a little more frustrating because if it's truly caused by hernias, that's a condition that's like a plumbing condition and our stuff and drug stuff. They all work somewhat but they can't super fix it because it might need some other intervention intervention to that. And the H. Pylori is wonderful. You mentioned that because that's something most people have no clue that they need to be tested for and in the H. Pylori, there are a few natural options, but sometimes you have to do also the pharmaceutical that doesn't work. Well, as far as enzymes. And I know from my experience, there's a lot of there's a humongous amount of different enzymes one, there's a few that I actually could aggravate some people's heartburn, so I'm very picky about actually recommending, but I know, like Enzymedica is just their whole company is based in enzymes. How long has Enzymedica been around?

Julia Craven 14:09
Since 1998.

Ed Jones 14:10
98. And I've really respected them because they are always on the frontline of innovative products. Good research, always have safety as as their premise. And so like, let's just say, okay, person walks in right now they're asking not for medical treatment, but for Okay, I want to know, what would be my steps for my heartburn and they're not on those drugs? Sure. What do they do?

Julia Craven 14:34
So there's a couple of options here. First, I want to go back to addressing the question about enzymes. And really, maybe that doesn't feel so comfortable with heartburn. That is usually because of the enzyme protease, which breaks down proteins. Now when we're thinking about if there's some damage, some adhesion to the gastric tissue or its stomach tissue, protease is going to go in and actually help to clean it up. Protease helps to work on damaged tissue, cleaning it up so that I can regenerate more quickly. So it's a wonderful thing. But if you're feeling that action, it may feel like some warmth and discomfort. So our digestive enzyme for people in that condition is called acid soothe. So it has amylase for carbohydrates, lipase for fat Cellulaze for fibers, but no protease, just to make sure that it's a very, very gentle formula. Okay. And then, you know, anytime that we're looking at repairing gastric tissue, we're looking at herbs like slippery elm, Douglas, resinated, licorice, prickly ash, things that really kind of help to regenerate and restore that. So I will get on an enzyme such as that something that is either low protease, or no protease like the acid soothe. So that would be your foundational digestive piece.

Ed Jones 15:46
Now, this is something you're gonna take with every meal?

Julia Craven 15:48
You take it, the instructions are to take before or after a meal. So that is that addressing the digestive piece, it's also digesting the foundation on making sure that that tissue remains healthy. With zinc carnosine, there's tons of research on zinc carnosine, anything from lower doses, I think most of the research is up at about 50 milligrams, to help to regenerate stomach tissue. So if you're having that feeling, you want to make sure that you're actually protecting the tissue as well. The thing that I love is you've mentioned several times about the acid not coming up, right. And so you know, the medical solution is neutralize the acid or block the acid. Well, there's another way, there's something called alginic acid, which is from brown seaweed. And when you take alginic acid, and you chew it, it binds with water, and it creates a raft of, of gel, basically, that sits on top of the stomach pocket, so that the acid is stays in place. So we're not neutralizing it, we're not stopping it, it's staying in place, it's still there, and therefore can't wash up. I love that, isn't it cool. And so you're keeping all of the good things about stomach acid and keeping it in the place so that the esophagus can start to heal. And then it also is like really soothing and nourishing for any damaged tissue. So for the person that's like, I am having heartburn consistently, I am having heartburn right now, this is happening a lot. This is your kind of go to, I call it like a natural OTC in a way because it acts that fast, it acts within a few minutes, because all you have to do is chew it, and then the alginic acid starts to go to work.

Ed Jones 17:22
So this is the one that you would do as needed this needle want to be doing on a regular basis. And I want to say zinc carnosine is has tremendous amount of good studies. It isn't the same as regular zinc people, you zinc carnosine is a special form that helps the cells of the gut and the esophagus and things to actually heal itself. Regular things great for healing, but it's not specific as carnosine. Yeah. And it's rare to find carnosine I know that theory of that alginic acid, and it's almost like building a new gasket is what it's doing. And it is so common sense. And what a wonderful way to access mother nature and the miracles of our natural pharmacy. Because it has no side effect, right? None whatsoever.

Julia Craven 18:05
In fact, it's mildly even a little bit detoxifying as you digest it to help to pull things out of the system that aren't supposed to be there. So yeah, it's wonderful on many fronts. And you know, as well as I do so often in natural, we have to take things for a little period of times. So when we get something that works on contact, that's wonderful, especially for something like heartburn that can be so uncomfortable for people.

Ed Jones 18:28
So taking the acid soothe every every meal, every meal, we do before or during or after?

Julia Craven 18:33
Well, most products for enzymes, we say take them before the meal, although you can take them before during after. But for acid soothe we say take before or after. And here's why you're going to get the best enzyme activity if you take it before, just because it's going to the stomach first and the food comes on top of it. But sometimes if people are very sensitive and they've had this issue for a long time, they have really sensitive stomachs and they will even react to just a pill on an empty stomach. And so we say let's go slow and gentle. Start with the food first and then you take the product I love that. So it's really you know, we're working we want people to have comfort because when you have comfort then you have compliance. And when you have compliance now we're starting to feel better.

Ed Jones 19:16
Now acid soothe so then with every meal, I know people and you know this too there's people with such bad heartburn that water causes things. Yeah, so if you're in that state you have to understand we're trying to like grow it grow a plant and a garden is not going to happen over in one single night. We're having to do the regeneration someone and then of course the heartburn soothe would do as needed. Let's talk a little bit about DGL. It's one of my most favorite products of my 43 year career. .

Julia Craven 19:46
Isn't it amazing?

Ed Jones 19:48
You know I don't like the taste of licorice but it is so magical that I don't care. If I have anything going on between the back of my tongue and the bottom of my stomach. The DGL has always been one of my go twos. chewable one that I like, Yeah, but tell us about DGL and and why it's different than regular licorice?

Julia Craven 20:05
Sure. So it's called deglycerinated licorice, they've taken a constituent out called glycerizen which has been found, if you consume it in too high, the level can cause heart palpitations, edema, high blood pressure, it's stimulating too much cortisol that glycerizen. So they figured out how to take that out and about the early 50s. And that's when this process started with going towards DGL versus whole licorice. Whole licorice has been in herbal compendiums the world over, you know, since the beginning of time Chinese medicine, aryuveda but it was always consumed in small amounts, it was always consumed as a tea. And so it was naturally self limiting. When people started to need to take more when we came industrial, industrialized, we started to notice these negative side effects. So we figured out how to take that one constituent out and leave all the good ones, the good constituents, that really are helpful for healing. So what DGL does in chewable form, it's very important that it's chewable is it mixes with saliva, which helps to activate it, it helps to make sure that that mucosal layer that's on the inside of your stomach and in your digestive system is intact. That mucosal layer is so important, because that's your own kind of internal bandage to help to protect those delicate epithelial cells, that delicate tissue that's in your digestive system that gets that mucosal layer gets worn down, when we don't have when our acid is out of balance, when we have too much acid, mucosal layer gets worn down, then the acid starts to degrade the tissue. That's where we get into trouble. So DGL goes in, it's an herbal bandaid in and of itself, it's a little bit mucilaginous. But then it also goes in and it really helps to stimulate those mucoid cells, which then help us to create our own healthy gastrointestinal mucus, which is essential for many things, but especially essential for just supporting our own tissue.

Ed Jones 22:04
You know, it just it never ceases to amaze me the common sense of following back into Mother Nature. Because we we can't fool Mother Nature one and we're not going to be smarter than Mother Nature. Now science is important to have in the backup, of course, but you know, this statement always follow the science. Well, the problem is half the science out there is not legitimate race is funded by the wrong people for the wrong reasons for the wrong conclusions. So forget this follow the science stuff, because you can't dig deep enough to know who's the honest one who's the not pretty much. But you know, those of us who dig deep, we can kind of know. But we also fall back into the wisdom of Mother Nature, especially those of us who have had a lot of years of this. And respecting it. Of course, again, I'm very respectful a medical field, they save so many lives, but they don't have any respect for Mother Nature's long term rules. Now DGL I recommend regular licorice, and this is off the path here. I always recommended regular licorice for the probably three people a month that come in and have chronic low blood pressure. chronic low blood pressure is devastating to people's vitality of health. And I'm talking blood pressure that is usually for 90 over 40 and below, then you as you mentioned, licorice can raise blood pressure. Well, you know what? There's another gift from Mother Nature for the right person. You have low blood pressure, you take a lot of licorice morning and evening. I have had people just their whole lives turned around because of that one thing. Yes. And so, but I love it. I don't use it often. But when I have anything again from I mean, I wouldn't say sore throat but anything is irritating from here down DGL. And the thing is just think about our own life at 19 years old. We could eat anything we wanted. We didn't have our burn week, we were a steel belly down there. One reason we don't because we lose the mucus layer? Well, I mean, I can't turn my 65 years back to 20. But what I can do is rebuild that mucus layer with common natural, reasonably priced, totally safe ingredients. DGL is it? Again, I don't like the taste of it. I don't care. I want the results yet. So you know, I just love that this concise conversation we're having because I think we are going to empower some people who are very, very frustrated with their own body and also frustrated with the dangers of these drugs. And you and I both know that 10 years ago, there was not a word about the risk of these drugs, right? And it wouldn't I don't know if it wasn't really hidden, but it just wasn't bubbling up to the surface. And I kept saying 20 years ago, something bad's gonna happen with this because we're fooling Mother Nature terribly, and not to go back to the other drug but the histamine blockers don't complete pletely fool Mother Nature they modestly so there's less side effect and there's times a few times I've taken Tagamet which is one of the over the counter histamine blockers if I had something like her when honestly bothering me but only for short runs, but it is a safer drug the PPIs concern me so much about what's going to happen to this country and is happening right now. So with this option, we have options, and you're presenting those in a very safe manner. And again, they're very reasonable. Doing the timing right is important. Again, as you spoke about the timing, and having it on board, like, would you know, the heartburn soothe? If you don't have heartburn today, you just keep it

Julia Craven 25:24
Right, right? You just have it in your in your cabin, right?

Ed Jones 25:28
And the other one you're going to do with every meal while rebuilding the damage from the gut linings, and we're helping, and then the DGL would be a third option. If you felt like you wanted to do that, right?

Julia Craven 25:37
Yeah, if it was becoming more advanced, and you were, you were having more serious kinds of symptoms, I do want to mention with the DGL, you said you don't like the taste a few times, and it is it's a strong taste of licorice, and you are chewing it, you know, those chewables work really well. And they're very high quality, we've come out with a new innovation that I just wanted to mention, because taste can be an issue with compliance. And Enzymedica has just launched a DGL gummy, the first one of its kind. And so you're kind of addressing both things, you're getting that wonderful presence of the DGL, and all of that healing power. But if somebody you know, and this is an issue, a lot of times people who are coming in maybe for the first, second third time, they're experiencing heartburn, their palate maybe isn't quite as setup to natural yet. And so giving them something that's more delicious and tasty, you're going to get that compliance again. And that's where it's at. It's all about compliance. Yes. And so if we make tasty, yummy, you know, we have to do this with kids. And we have to do it with adults sometimes to you know, we're assured that they're going to keep tasting and taking it.

Ed Jones 26:41
I'm so glad you said that. I actually do remember seeing that at the latest nutrition show that we went to. And I remember getting a sample of it. You were giving samples, weren't you? I was blown away. And I've wide forgot it. I don't know. And, and we'll be getting that in very soon. I know, because it was definitely better tasting than any other that I have chewed in a tablet that was chewable. So that's exciting. And I will be keeping that on hand for sure. Yeah, from from soon as we get it back in. So I think we've created a great plan for people, we've talked about the fact of how enzymes work, while the drugs are less, we should be more risky, and consider them risky and more cautious, and what to do for basic symptoms, and also what to do for the long haul of rebuilding ourselves. Again, you know, we have a lot of oil, you don't you're young, I have a lot more miles on me. And just like a car, it has a lot of wear and tear. And we just kind of have to work harder as the years go on in order to keep the systems afloat and make them work optimally well. And that's not the gonna be the purpose of most drugs, they are there to get you out of a hole out of a ditch, help you during the short run. But more and more people are frilly. And I have to thank COVID for this COVID has opened the eyes of not only many of the public as far as our health is vital to our longevity is heart health is vital to living and breathing. But also medical people. I've had so many physicians and nurses and nurse practitioners that are inquisitive now. And before that the doors were shut. So I think it's just many things in life, we'd label as bad, but it's always a combination. And as some great things has happened. And this is one of those based on COVID. I see people taking such more responsibility for their life. And they don't really trust the drugs as much, right, they are life saving in the right moment. But in the other moments, they may not be. Well Julia, this was an awesome education for heartburn, anything else you'd like to say?

Julia Craven 28:36
I just want to say I appreciate this conversation so much, because what we're touching on over and over and over again, is the integration of you know, what we will call you know, allopathic and holistic medicine, because it really is about using the best remedy at that moment in time and then figuring out how to get back to nature and supporting your body to get back to homeostasis, which is where it wants to be. So thank you so much such a pleasure.

Ed Jones 29:01
And same here. I love talking to people with a passion and education that you have. And I'm sure down the road, we'll be doing another segment on enzymes because this is the one on heartburn. But there's a lot of different conversations that can be had about the what the ability of natural enzymes can do for people. And again, an enzyme is there to break down something and help it to help us to utilize whatever it's breaking down. And I know there's just all different conversations about I mean from serious conditions that have nothing to do with heartburn all the way to just being optimally healthy. And and I've experiment a lot with enzymes and you know I have my my friendly enzymes. I have a few that didn't work and a couple it bothered me a little bit experimenting. But Enzymedica has done such a good job like you said taking the protease you've got it planned for people better than any one company that I have seen in the industry. So thank you again and I will be seeing you in another six months to a year guarantee.

Julia Craven 29:57
Absolutely. See you soon.

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